Bell's Hinge backs. Help with identification

[Spiloides]

Can anyone clarify the identification of this pair. Possible a Western and Eastern? Both have four claws on each foot. Assistance would be gratefully received.
Thanks

[EJ]

I believe they are both K. b. spekii. Are they recent acquisitions/imports?

[Spiloides]

They have been in the country for years but although a pair, have never produced eggs. I have three spekii and they look very differnt, flatter and with five claws on each forefoot. I can see this is going to be harder than I thought!

[EJ]

My first immediate thought was that they were K.b.belliana but I know they have not been exported in quite a few years even in the UK.

For the last 3 or 4 years they have been exporting K.b.spekii in massive numbers. Also, it's hard to see how flat the carapace is on the tortoises you have pictured.

I imported a few hundred of the spekii and you would not believe how variable the pattern is and how variable the claw count it. Many only had 4 claws and I know they were all spekii.

They are one or the other but they are both the same species. If they've been in the country for quite a few years then the odds are they are belliana because spekii have been a fairly recent event of exportation.

Originally Posted by Spiloides

They have been in the country for years but although a pair, have never produced eggs. I have three spekii and they look very differnt, flatter and with five claws on each forefoot. I can see this is going to be harder than I thought!

[Spiloides]

This is a shot ofmy spekii for comparison. The carapaces of the two I am trying to identify are alot more comvex.

[EJ]

Those are obviously captive born and raised. You really can't use them as a comparison because the first two you showed are obviously wild caught.

With the added info you gave I do tend to think they are belliana. I've got some photos of the spekii I imported. I'll try and post those. I had one beautiful belliana that I also have one single photo of.

Either way... good luck with them. Have you tried seperating them in the summer or if they are used to the northern hemisphere cycle... seperate them in the winter and cool them down a little.

[Spiloides]

They have been together to date. They were very nervous and reluctant to feed at first. But now they rush over when I appear - its snails -they love them. Do you think that the very different colours indicate a different geographic origin?

[EJ]

Their range is relatively small. It could be that they are just from different populations. The light colored one is relatively common... usually among older animals. I have seen that same color in both the spekii and belliana(years ago) as part of a large shipment from the same area.

Originally Posted by Spiloides

They have been together to date. They were very nervous and reluctant to feed at first. But now they rush over when I appear - its snails -they love them. Do you think that the very different colours indicate a different geographic origin?

[Spiloides]

Thanks for all the info. I will separate them over the coming winter and try to get them together in the Spring.
Thanks again.

[EJ]

Good luck.

Btw... how far are you from Hayes, Kent?

Originally Posted by Spiloides

Thanks for all the info. I will separate them over the coming winter and try to get them together in the Spring.
Thanks again.