Shell rot in red footed tortoise due 2 incorrect environment

[EJ]

My servers down or screwed so the photos do not link for some reason. If you select the red X and go to properties you can cut and paste the address and the photo will come up.

Anyway, Thanks Laraine.

Originally Posted by Laraine

Don't mean to highjack this post, but here are links to posts on here that include photos and links to photos when Ed as he said was in 'a sharing' mood

http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/...488&highlight=

http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/...484&highlight=

Laraine

[EJ]

The photos I post on the net including my photos used on other web sites, like McIntyres website on Leopards, are mine of my animals and set ups unless otherwise noted.

The photos used in all the magazine articles, books and websites are mostly of my animals and set ups. These have been circulated for years.

I have no problem backing up the information I provide because I know I've got good looking and well cared for animals.

I don't see why you have to defend what you are doing if you are so sure what you are doing is right.

I don't defend how I maintain my animals. I do describe how I do maintain them as an example of acceptable methods and practices.

I'll post more pictures this week.

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

we can only assume that EDs torts are fine and kept well as he never posts any photos or none that show his animals and their housing etc, everyone else on here has and do post photos because they have nothing to hide and want to improve their care and housing, most of these disagreements only occur when a ED starts in so untill he is gone then unfortunately they will continue because a lot of us will keep on defending what we believe the right way to care for our animals.

[helen1]

Laraine beat me to it. I just feel so sad that Ed feels he has to prove himself...I hope to goodness that I never attack in this way.

[EJ]

Thanks Helen.

I never felt I have to prove myself.

I look at people who do throw up the number of years they have and the number of animals they have... as a sign of insecurity. I do find myself falling into this catagory sometimes. When I do catch myself I know I have nothing to feel insecure about so I try not to boast about my practices... notice I said try... I'm still only human contrary to what some may say on and off list.

Originally Posted by helen1

Laraine beat me to it. I just feel so sad that Ed feels he has to prove himself...I hope to goodness that I never attack in this way.

[tort71]

I thought this forum was pro-TT and received most of it's practices from the TT website?

The following was taken from an article on TT, written by yours truly Andy Highfield:

"Captive environment: Red-foot tortoises inhabit grassland savannah and drier forest habitats throughout South America. In only a few localities does it impinge upon true tropical rainforest habitats. In captivity, a moderately dry environment and temperature in the region of 21 C (night) to 27 C (day) will suit most specimens. Access to water should however be provided at all times."

Ref: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/kandb.htm

Notice Ed's recommendations and then read the above. Before you start slinging, how about doing some digging first.

P.S. Nice pics Ed!

[wildlifewarrior]

i think this will be my last post in this topic as it's getting too heated, the forum is about discussion not just following one way or else a forum wud be pointless....i do not doubt that edward is very cleaver and has alot of valuable knowledge that can help out this any many other site. thats was not my point. i just don't like bullies and if i think someone is mocking someone else then i will tell them.....sorry i was brought up that way.

[sarah]

Originally Posted by tort71

I thought this forum was pro-TT and received most of it's practices from the TT website?

The following was taken from an article on TT, written by yours truly Andy Highfield:

"Captive environment: Red-foot tortoises inhabit grassland savannah and drier forest habitats throughout South America. In only a few localities does it impinge upon true tropical rainforest habitats. In captivity, a moderately dry environment and temperature in the region of 21 C (night) to 27 C (day) will suit most specimens. Access to water should however be provided at all times."

Ref: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/kandb.htm

Notice Ed's recommendations and then read the above. Before you start slinging, how about doing some digging first.

P.S. Nice pics Ed!

Yes we do agree with the TT and think its a great site!

Darren has been breeding red foots for over 10 years and has even studied them in their natural environment!

We advise people to spray their red foots and keep their substrate damp to gain humdity.

From tortoise trust: On the forest floor, the air is very still and the ambient humidity is almost always above 75%, often extending to 90%, and the temperature is relatively constant year-round at 80-85° F

[pawsplus]

There is a HUGE diff b/t being in a moist environment on moist substrate (moist w/ WATER) and being on urine-soaked substrate! Obviously in the wild torts are on the move a lot and hence, not lying in their own waste! In captivity the enclosure has to be kept clean. It's the urine, not the water, that is the issue here, it seems to me.

I spray down my enclosure 1-2X a day. The area on the warm end dries out pretty quickly on the surface, but in the hide area it stays moist. Beasley spends most of her time in the hide area and her shell is lovely.

[Pussygalore]

I know this is a bit of subject but if horses hooves are the same as shell then a lot of damage can be done to horses feet from standing in their own muck and urine, the hooves will rot and go very soft so again its the urine, ammonia which does the damage not the moisture content

[tort71]

Originally Posted by sarah

Yes we do agree with the TT and think its a great site!

Darren has been breeding red foots for over 10 years and has even studied them in their natural environment!

We advise people to spray their red foots and keep their substrate damp to gain humdity.

From tortoise trust: On the forest floor, the air is very still and the ambient humidity is almost always above 75%, often extending to 90%, and the temperature is relatively constant year-round at 80-85° F

You can increase ambient humidity without having to soak the substrate. Simply having an over-sized water dish (one that is shallow of course) will most likely increase ambient humidity sufficiently. I don't agree with the point your trying to make however because shell rot needs moisture. Placing a RF in conditions lacking ambient humidity such as a desert tortoise setup should not induce shell rot. The reason why humidity is important for RF's is because of their respiratory systems and eyes. Without the proper ambient humidity they are bound to get all kinds of respiratory problems and eye infections. What happened in this case is most likely due to what pawsplus said, sitting in its own urine for an extended period of time, not the lack of ambient humidity!