The Tank Man

Leila · 31-07-2006, 10:20 AM

Hi guys,

Can you help? I bought Tank from a Pet store in Jan 2005 (I know! Being an idiot I did my research after I bought and not before!). He was sold with a CITES cert identifying him as the below

Testudo hermanni hermanni - Hatched in 2004 - Captive bred in Germany.

I now have reason to believe he was wild caught and older than we have been led to believe. One reason to believe he is older is that we have always been able to tell he is male. He has always had a large tail that he holds to the side. I shouldn't have been able to tell his sex until he is about 4yrs? At last weigh in on 2nd July he was 124g and 81.4mm (3.2").

When we took him to the vets after buying him he did have a heavy worm burden. Also we would like to rehome another tort so that he has company, is there any possibility that he could be a carrier of a disease like RNS but not be showing symptoms? He seems happy and healthy and other than the worm burden the vet was quite happy with him, he did mention RNS but said as long as he was kept correctly it shouldn't develop.

Thank you for all your help

Leila

sandy · 31-07-2006, 02:12 PM

Hi

I think you will need much clearer pictures of the tail end, for correct sexing.
Do you have marco on your camera?
As this would help make pictures clearer.

Leila · 31-07-2006, 02:20 PM

I'll have to try and get a pic of him without him tucking it up. It is very long though, almost as long as his back legs.

sandy · 31-07-2006, 02:27 PM

Well if its that long then definitly male.

Leila · 31-07-2006, 02:32 PM

Do you think he is 2yrs as his cert suggests or could he be older?

piglet · 02-08-2006, 12:11 PM

Lelia for his size i would say several years older but tortoises with incorrect diet can grow extremley fast usually developing deformedcarapaces in the process , your tortoise looks in good growth so would suggest he/she is older than stated.
Darren

Leila · 02-08-2006, 06:26 PM

Thanks Darren, How old do you think he might be and do you think he will be OK with a friend?

piglet · 02-08-2006, 06:51 PM

Hi leila
Hermanni Hermanni are rather small tortoises anyway average adult size is males rarely exceed 165mm and females up to 190mm , there are three distinct sub-varities within the hermanni hermanni subforms these can be found in southern France , Spain and Italy,

They can difficult to find in the UK as true hermanni hermanni as some captive bred animals are noteably hybrids between the sub speices or not actually hermanni hermanni but boettgeri with distinct black plastrons .
One feature thats supposed to be true with hermanni hermanni is the supracaudal scute (the scute plate just above the tail) is divided while boettgeri usually but not always has a single supracaudal scute
Leila thats about all i no on this sub speices of hermanns tortoise.
Hope this is of some use .
Darren

Leila · 02-08-2006, 08:44 PM

Hi Darren,

Your info has been very helpful, I definately think he is hermanni but don't know if he is a hybrid. I can't quite tell what I am sposed to be looking at with regard to the divided supracaudal scute. I'll keep researching though

Thank you for all your help. It is much appreciated.

Leila · 03-08-2006, 07:24 PM

I've done a bit of research and can confirm that I think Tank is definately a true Hemanni Hermanni, he seems to conform on every level. Bless him, he is such a sweetie

31-07-2006, 10:20 AM	#1
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	The Tank Man Hi guys, Can you help? I bought Tank from a Pet store in Jan 2005 (I know! Being an idiot I did my research after I bought and not before!). He was sold with a CITES cert identifying him as the below Testudo hermanni hermanni - Hatched in 2004 - Captive bred in Germany. I now have reason to believe he was wild caught and older than we have been led to believe. One reason to believe he is older is that we have always been able to tell he is male. He has always had a large tail that he holds to the side. I shouldn't have been able to tell his sex until he is about 4yrs? At last weigh in on 2nd July he was 124g and 81.4mm (3.2"). When we took him to the vets after buying him he did have a heavy worm burden. Also we would like to rehome another tort so that he has company, is there any possibility that he could be a carrier of a disease like RNS but not be showing symptoms? He seems happy and healthy and other than the worm burden the vet was quite happy with him, he did mention RNS but said as long as he was kept correctly it shouldn't develop. Thank you for all your help Leila

31-07-2006, 02:12 PM	#2
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Hi I think you will need much clearer pictures of the tail end, for correct sexing. Do you have marco on your camera? As this would help make pictures clearer. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

31-07-2006, 02:27 PM	#4
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Well if its that long then definitly male. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

02-08-2006, 12:11 PM	#6
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Lelia for his size i would say several years older but tortoises with incorrect diet can grow extremley fast usually developing deformedcarapaces in the process , your tortoise looks in good growth so would suggest he/she is older than stated. Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

02-08-2006, 06:51 PM	#8
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi leila Hermanni Hermanni are rather small tortoises anyway average adult size is males rarely exceed 165mm and females up to 190mm , there are three distinct sub-varities within the hermanni hermanni subforms these can be found in southern France , Spain and Italy, They can difficult to find in the UK as true hermanni hermanni as some captive bred animals are noteably hybrids between the sub speices or not actually hermanni hermanni but boettgeri with distinct black plastrons . One feature thats supposed to be true with hermanni hermanni is the supracaudal scute (the scute plate just above the tail) is divided while boettgeri usually but not always has a single supracaudal scute Leila thats about all i no on this sub speices of hermanns tortoise. Hope this is of some use . Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

31-07-2006, 02:20 PM	#3
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	I'll have to try and get a pic of him without him tucking it up. It is very long though, almost as long as his back legs.

31-07-2006, 02:32 PM	#5
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	Do you think he is 2yrs as his cert suggests or could he be older?

02-08-2006, 06:26 PM	#7
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	Thanks Darren, How old do you think he might be and do you think he will be OK with a friend?

02-08-2006, 08:44 PM	#9
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	Hi Darren, Your info has been very helpful, I definately think he is hermanni but don't know if he is a hybrid. I can't quite tell what I am sposed to be looking at with regard to the divided supracaudal scute. I'll keep researching though Thank you for all your help. It is much appreciated.

03-08-2006, 07:24 PM	#10
Leila Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Southend, Essex Posts: 57	I've done a bit of research and can confirm that I think Tank is definately a true Hemanni Hermanni, he seems to conform on every level. Bless him, he is such a sweetie

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