Pyramiding

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan

Slightly off topic, but as we noticed even the totally wild tortoises in corsica do not have entirely smooth shell growth. This might be connected to water supply as there is virtually no rain some years on the island from mid June to late August. There are streams of course, but it might be hard for those tortoises to find any water at times in the summer.

aye that's one of this guy's theories about sardinia too http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...6&postcount=13 Manuel Wegehaupt

[16 shells]

I would like to do a mind warp with some of the older British garden tort's (pic's on here) that have been left to there own survival near enough. Garden wise smooth bugger's they are.

[EJ]

Again... without heat none of the other metabolic processes can take place as they are supposed to which makes it more important than food. How else can you explain the wonderful looking tortoises that are raised on 'crap' diets.

[Alan1]

what was the name of that membrane that can dry out when they are young Ed? I keep forgetting the name of it

[EJ]

Are you talking about the membrane between the scutes? I've never known it but I think AH had a name for it in a partially very good article on one idea of the mechanics of pyramiding.

Originally Posted by caledonia

what was the name of that membrane that can dry out when they are young Ed? I keep forgetting the name of it

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by EJ

Are you talking about the membrane between the scutes? I've never known it but I think AH had a name for it in a partially very good article on one idea of the mechanics of pyramiding.

I think so, it's the one that if it dries out completely the scutes grow on top rather than underneath each other or something like that?

[janeL]

Fasciating discussion. I have only expereinced it in one of my torts and I was over wintering her. I could decide if it was lack of exercise, too dry environment or not as varried a diet. Who knows could be all three.

Regarding the membrane thing, now that has got me thinking. I took on a little one who was proven to be very dehydrated when she arrived. He scutes appeared to almost be fused together and now they have started to grow there has been a little bit of flaking around them. Worried me sick but the vet is happy with her. I recently posted about her here...
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=42760

[Naturalee]

I always had a suspicion that a lack of abrasion to the carapace was partly responsible for it in captive tortoises, so I was oddly excited that AH made a point of this in his recent article. I'm due to move my tortoises onto a bigger set up soon and so I'm trying to come up with some ideas to create a bit of gentle wear to the carapace, as would occur naturally (such as hides with abrasive undersides etc.).

This membrane thingy that I keep hearing about makes some sense as one of mine was pyramiding when I got him from the breeder. He is about 3-6 months older than the other two and was the biggest when I got them. He's now almost half the size of the biggest one, despite my best efforts to "put him right". He also displays that strange humped front though which I feel is a sign that its out of my control now.
The biggest one is also a bit bumpy (but has a normal overall shaped carapace) and eats like a pig, indicating that over eating might play a role in pyramiding.

I also think that the drying effect of the heat sources we use on our tortoises play a role. The surrounding air can be as humid as 100% but a tortoises carapace is still going to dry in no time under the heat sources that we all use, even if the shell has just been sprayed and is dripping wet.

Basically, there's no single cause, in my opinion. Its a combination of environmental and nutritional factors, and getting things in the correct balance.

[EJ]

It's definately a combination of factors but I think there are some factors that are more important than others... Heat... Hydration... then the rest.

[Kirkie]

Some of the smoothest tortoises I've personally seen in the flesh are those that are kept outdoors for the majority of the year in the UK.

I feel that the UK climate, whilst not on the whole condusive to tortoises, is conducive to their smooth growth. If you take any of the listed factors, the uk climate plays its part.

Temperature - whilst its possible for the basking temps to hit 50C outdoors it is not as intense as a beam from a lamp. There is constant air flow drawing in cooler, damper air. The temperature is not focused directly on the tortoise but surrounds it and the tortoise has opportunity to adjust its basking position and angle as it sees fit. Not possible on a flat surface under a lamp.

Humidity - On hot days the humidity at ground level in my outdoor enclosures gets down to 10-15% but in the evening a 30-40% gain is the norm.*
My tortoises always feel heavier outdoors, possibly because of an absence of dehydration.

Feeding - due to the vaguries of the british weather tortoises experience days or periods within a day not suitable for feeding activity to take place. Too cold, occasionally too hot. Therefore per annum, the tortoise is eating less food than a tortoise kept in constant optimal conditions indoors.*

You can throw in exercise and foraging at this point too. Also the wear and tear factor.

So either by chance or design the combination of factors apparent in the uk may, in a backward way, contribute to the smooth growth of tortoises. By actually providing them with the same obsticles to growth they encounter in nature whilst applying a level of humidity that prevents dehydration at bodily and cellular level. All the bases covered.