Ethics of Breeding

[Daryn]

I posted the very same question a while back.

I agree their are alot of unwanted tortes out there but I can understand why some people would prefer a very tiny torte first and having one from a UK breeder is the best way to go.

The breeding part is something I would love to experience, bringing up your own tortes from an egg must be an amazing experience but Im not sure if its something I would do but never say never.

Im afraid we will always have unwanted pets no matter what they are but the problem with tortes is they can out live us and people get bored.

I could never imagine not having a tortoise in the garden now.

[vikki]

I guess that is one of the issues Daryn - something like a hamster or rabbit have a limited lifespan along with even cats and dogs so even those people who believe a pet is for life are going to potentially have quite a few over the years but with tortoises if you are committed and keep your tortoise healthy then there is a good chance you will never need to buy another(unless you choose to get more!!) so therefore much more limited market of buyers/rescuers.

[CherryBrandy]

yes, and you will find too that people say oooh I'd love to have a tortoise they are low maintenance and then when you insist on the lights, hygiene, explain good husbandry , UV bulbs etc they aren't interested or in other words can't be 'asked' with it all as clearly not so low maintenance now.....thank good ness for good breeders.

[Andy Robertson]

I have to agree with Gordon,

A lot of unwanted torts are most likely impulse buys from pet shops. I sell my hatchlings all over the place with a lot of people having to drive over six hours to collect them.
For me this is not impulse buying and shows me that they have done there research and are willing to travel long distances to buy from a breeder, rather than getting from a petshop 20mins down the road.
I think most people would be very shocked on how many torts petshops sell, every time am in mines they always have loads of them.

[Ceirdwyn]

I would much rather buy from a UK breeder, as I did with my snakes. That way you know the history of your pet, and the parents. You are not encouraging the wild capture or intensive farming practises and you can be reasonably confident that your pet is healthy and doesn't have any parasites.
I think getting a tortoise from a rescue is a good thing to do if you are set up for it and are willing to undertake the care of a tortoise that my have various issues due to poor husbandry. It's not guaranteed that a tortoise in a rescue will not have been cared for properly, but it's certainly a risk. I've done it for snakes, but I'm not confident in my abilities to rehab a tortoise because I don't have any experience. Therefore I wouldn't encourage someone to get a rescue tortoise as their first tortoise.
EDITED TO ADD:
I'm not trying to imply that the rescue would have poor husbandry. I just reread my post and saw that it could be read that way. What I'm trying to say is that however it was kept before, and whatever lead to the tortoise ending up in a rescue, may have left the tortoise with long term issues.

[Anyfoot]

I agree with Gordon. We need to keep the Tortoise community happy with cb torts. This will help reduce the decline in the wild.
As far as for breeders, IMO they should not sell to shops, if the breeders sell direct to the Tortoise community not only is the knowledge being past on for care, the breeder will know when 'supply and demand' is dropping and will naturally reduce the breeding programme.
Anyone can sell a bunch of cheap torts to a shop, where they don't get tret correctly, who knows how long there going to be in a tiny dry enclosure for the shop keeper to make a profit, also they don't care who they sell to, and specific knowledge for that species is not past on to the new tort carer. I don't go in reptile shops unless I'm desperate, I can't cope with how they look after the tortoises(probably all pets really). It distresses me and I have to bite my lip whilst in there. I've asked questions about the torts they are selling just to gauge their knowledge. In most cases they know zilch.
I was in a reptile shop a few years back and 3 lads walked in about 18yr old. They wasn't sure whether to by a chameleon, bearded dragon or a hermanns. Shop keeper was bending over backwards to sell what ever took their fancy. Luckily they walked out empty handed well with a can of beer actually. (All were drunk).
That same shop I rescued two 12" redfoots that had been in a 2x4" viv for 3 wks to my knowledge. He lied and said they were some others but I saw them 3 wks earlier. He also said they were a breeding pair, please, they were both females. I gave him less than he wanted and have never returned.
So yes, breeders should breed, but pass on knowledge and keep in touch with the new carer and have morals and don't sell to reptile shops.

Also if I was to sell some torts I would need satisfaction that the new carer is in touch, on a well respected forum and up to speed with care methods.

[CherryBrandy]

Both shocking and saddening isn't it. My only two Tortoise I bought for similar reasons was over 20 years ago at a garden centre type shop in Essex. I had only gone to get some flowers as I was visiting an Auntie. I thought they were spuds piled up in a corner. No heat nothing...I picked the ones at the bottom of the spud pile caked in poo and wee. thank goodness that's changed at least, but frightening we aren't there yet. The two in question are still alive today, amazingly as you couldn't even see their faces. I do often wonder what became of the others. I assist any little request to help now as a promise to those who no doubt didn't make it to the sunshine. We definitely need good breeders, especially those that keep the line pure also. CB

[Anyfoot]

Yep. Another shop i went into once had 2 juvenile redfoots. This was before I new what I know today about this species. He had them at 40°c on dry beech woodchips eating lettuce. To listen to him he was an expert and to be honest I was convinced of his knowledge, anyway I kept researching and its a good job I did.

[CherryBrandy]

I wish people would just buy from breeders, or rescue centres, Sanctuaries, and ditch the shops unless they have an excellent reputation but then some people wont do the research and get the understanding or listen so the onus of responsibility ultimately lies with the owner. CB