Tortoise Log Book

[crazy_sailor]

Cheers for the replies.

The Weight and Length graph uses the same 5 or 6 data points the other graphs and tables use and for the life of me I cant get the x-axis labels to not be daily. No matter what I do it still puts out too many labels, but I will keep on trying. The graphs don't rely on a specific period between samples, just as and when they happen.

I will investigate the Hailey calculator and if need be I can have that as another page. The more data and analysis the better.

[Catwoman63]

Very impressive indeed, I've got a note book for each of mine that I record weight, length, hibernation details x

[EJ]

If you were really serious about knowing the proper weight of your tortoise... Submerge the tortoise in a vessel of water. Determine the amount of water the tortoise displaces. Weigh the amount of water displaced. Subtract about 15% of the weight which is roughly the capacity of the lungs. That is what I would think is the ideal weight of a chelonian.

Your tortoises weight can also vary by up to 15% or more depending on if it has just eaten or deficated.

Originally Posted by pagan queen

I do see what you mean Ed. What concerns me is my young female is under weight by that scale and if she is slightly underweight by that then she is even moreso than she should be in captivity.

[crazy_sailor]

That last post made me think and just for fun........

That would give you the ideal weight of a very full tortoise made of water without any other internal voids. Any assumptions regards their relative specific gravities (less lung volume) I think would be very tenuous. As you said the amount of food/or lack of can alter the weights too and therefor densities. Buoyancy testing would help determine the densities but do you submerge the tortoise when lungs are full or empty? or indeed would you need legs and head in or out? Also the best temperature to do this would be 4 degrees centigrade but that would just be adding to the cruelty of the test.

Blimey, that was off topic!!!!

[EJ]

Basic biology tells you that vertebrates are made of up to 90% water by weight. That's not an assumption.

Ideally you would submerge the tortoise with the lungs empty for an acurate mass. Considering that this is not possible... this is where the percentage subtracted comes in.

The only void in the body cavity of the tortoise should be the lungs... for a healthy and normally active tortoise.

This is why I say when a person what is a good weight for a tortoise... to compare it to a similar size balloon filled with water.

I guess that's too difficult a concept for some to grasp.

Just disregard everything I've said. This conversation is taking an all too common turn for the worse.

Originally Posted by crazy_sailor

That last post made me think and just for fun........

That would give you the ideal weight of a very full tortoise made of water without any other internal voids. Any assumptions regards their relative specific gravities (less lung volume) I think would be very tenuous. As you said the amount of food/or lack of can alter the weights too and therefor densities. Buoyancy testing would help determine the densities but do you submerge the tortoise when lungs are full or empty? or indeed would you need legs and head in or out? Also the best temperature to do this would be 4 degrees centigrade but that would just be adding to the cruelty of the test.

Blimey, that was off topic!!!!

[crazy_sailor]

No seriously thank you for everyones contributions.

I'm an engineer who likes trying to work things out which is why I put just for fun at the top of my last post in case anybody thought I was questioning their knowledge and assistance.

Many thanks once again and I value all assistance, otherwise I would not have not have asked.

[egyptiandan64]

Hailey took all that into account Ed when he made up the calculator. Here's his reasearch https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95799216/h2000a.pdf

Danny

[EJ]

I'll re read it.

He's taken a very basic statistical concept and applied it to a popular topic among tortoise keepers to probably fill in an academic check box in some degree or job requirement. Can't fault him for that.

He took all of what into account. We've hit on so many variables. The point is to control the variables in captivity so a common good health standard for tortoises can be attained. The simpler the better. Each time you come up with a best fit curve based on wild populations or even captive populations it is always going to be different than the next unless the variables for how the animals were raised are controlled as much as possible.

Using a best fit curve from any wild population is only going to be a best fit curve for that population and nothing more.

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

Hailey took all that into account Ed when he made up the calculator. Here's his reasearch https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95799216/h2000a.pdf

Danny

[crazy_sailor]

Dan

Cheers. I've had a skim and will inwardly digest over the next few days and see if and how to incorporate it.

[crazy_sailor]

Having now digested it I have made additions to include the Haileys Ratio calculations so as to present as much information in one document as possible (obviously noting any caveats with the research and assumptions made), so here we go -

Curves for a male hermann



Jenson Data



Jenson Graph



I did try combining both the Jacksons and Haileys data on one graph and it just turned out too messy.

If anybody has any other suggestions for improvements/additions to a one stop shop for keeping key, growth and health data to this log book then happy to hear them.