Shelled Warriors Forums
 

Go Back   Shelled Warriors Forums > Tortoise Information > Mediterranean Tortoises - Information & Questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-02-2017, 02:13 PM   #1
JerryMaffz
Member
Incubating
 
JerryMaffz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 194
Default Hibernation Poo

After 4 and a half weeks in his fridge, Jerry passed a small poo yesterday.
It's not something I'm particularly worried about, but it does throw up some questions.
He was wound down over a period of 20 days which I'd have thought more than adequate for a 79g Tortoise to clear his system.
I can only surmise that he ate some of his poo during this period.
His temps have been no higher than 6 degrees throughout the hibernation so surely this also suggests that the metabolism still operates at hibernation temperature.
Anyway, he's staying in the fridge, and the weight of his poo (yes, I weighed it, at 0.4g ) will be taken into account on his weekly weigh-in.
__________________
Keith

Testudo hermanni boettgeri 1:0:0 Jerry Maffz

Last edited by JerryMaffz; 02-02-2017 at 02:16 PM.
JerryMaffz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #2
sandy
Senior Member
Adult
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kent UK
Posts: 12,144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryMaffz View Post
After 4 and a half weeks in his fridge, Jerry passed a small poo yesterday.
It's not something I'm particularly worried about, but it does throw up some questions.
He was wound down over a period of 20 days which I'd have thought more than adequate for a 79g Tortoise to clear his system.
I can only surmise that he ate some of his poo during this period.
His temps have been no higher than 6 degrees throughout the hibernation so surely this also suggests that the metabolism still operates at hibernation temperature.
Anyway, he's staying in the fridge, and the weight of his poo (yes, I weighed it, at 0.4g ) will be taken into account on his weekly weigh-in.
Sometimes food still remains in the intestines, which is not a problem in hibernation. And can be quite normal:0)
It urination thats the problem:0)
__________________
< > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles
\0/
/_\

http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends
sandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2017, 11:08 PM   #3
Ozric Jonathan
Senior Member
Adult
 
Ozric Jonathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West of Scotland
Posts: 4,226
Default

From what I can remember of some of the arguments on here years ago, food can't do any harm once it is far enough along the digestive tract.

Ed took a more extreme view of course. He said that food won't rot in a vacuum at 6 degrees centigrade. I'm not suggesting anyone hibernate a tort with a full stomach but I don't remember explaining how food can rot in vacuum at 6C.
__________________
Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises
Ozric Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2017, 11:34 PM   #4
JerryMaffz
Member
Incubating
 
JerryMaffz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan View Post
From what I can remember of some of the arguments on here years ago, food can't do any harm once it is far enough along the digestive tract.

Ed took a more extreme view of course. He said that food won't rot in a vacuum at 6 degrees centigrade. I'm not suggesting anyone hibernate a tort with a full stomach but I don't remember explaining how food can rot in vacuum at 6C.
Makes sense to me, Jonathan.
I also wouldn't suggest full stomach hibernation, but the wind down period does seem overly artificial to me.
I just can't visualise a wild tortoise suddenly stopping eating at the thought of impending cold weather. There will always be some food around, and I just think an active tortoise would want to eat...even if the weather has cooled enough for the tortoise to be active for a very short time in the day.
In fact, AH has studied hibernating tortoises emerging, feeding and then digging down again...Throws a few theories out the window.

I suppose the wind down is just another captive compromise that errs on the side of safety, for good reason.
__________________
Keith

Testudo hermanni boettgeri 1:0:0 Jerry Maffz
JerryMaffz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2017, 12:24 AM   #5
Ozric Jonathan
Senior Member
Adult
 
Ozric Jonathan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West of Scotland
Posts: 4,226
Default

I agree with you there Keith. My thinking is that if we keep a tortoise warm and hungry for too long then not only does everything in the system get digested, but the tortoise will start to use up the reserves that it needs for hibernation.

That reminds me that the warm baths are not natural either and might purge the tortoise digestive system of food matter which hasn't been fully digested. I don't do any warm baths on wind down but I do some tepid ones for hydration.
__________________
Testudo Hermanni Hermanni (Corse) tortoises
Ozric Jonathan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 01:05 PM   #6
CherryBrandy
Senior Member
Adult
 
CherryBrandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SE England
Posts: 4,259
Default

yes its an interesting debate isn't it because it can be scarey stories to new tortoise keepers that their tortoise will blow up with rotting vegetation caught inside. I knew a tortoise that hibernated on top of a wardrobe for years in a normal heated house to no ill effects, and others back in the day in London were just left in the garden. Appreciate husbandry and knowledge is far more advanced but I agree with the baths, I have never ever bathed prior to hibernation, only for hydration and that's particularly rare when they are outdoors as you only have to look at a humidity guage and its towards 100 % in autumn time. There must be a pre cursor that if you do everything right and the tortoise still doesn't make it its down to the Tortoise make up and health and not necessarily the process.
__________________
Horsfields, Spur Thighed, & Marginata
CherryBrandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2017, 04:24 PM   #7
Suze65
Senior Member
Adult
 
Suze65's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 6,769
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan View Post
From what I can remember of some of the arguments on here years ago, food can't do any harm once it is far enough along the digestive tract.

Ed took a more extreme view of course. He said that food won't rot in a vacuum at 6 degrees centigrade. I'm not suggesting anyone hibernate a tort with a full stomach but I don't remember explaining how food can rot in vacuum at 6C.
This is what I have been lead to believe, that they don't empty the digestive tracked completely, but as long as it far down the gut, it won't rot and kill them. Mine have always wound down naturally ( except the babies) my old ones have just got on with it by themselves for the last 45 years, and they haven't died yet, and I wouldn't know if the gut is fully empty or not.
__________________
Suze.

3 THB, Sammy, Jemima, & Phoebe
7 Marginated, Tabitha, Ptolome, Tatiana, Noah,Lottey, Lulu & Poppy
1 TGG (Emma) RIP Feb 2012
Suze65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.