Bad tortoise keeping?

[Finsky]

When I had my new tortoise, I couldn't wait to see my allotment neighbour to tell my news and ask some advise.
My neighbour is in his 80's and kept his tortoise going for 50 odd years...so surely he can't be doing that bad..?!
Over the years I've always listened his tortoise stories, though this time, with now shared interest, I did pay more attention for his wisdom.
He told me how his tortoise 'go to bed' in October into unheated garage and it doesn't come out until he hears waking up noises, usually in March time...'right'...n 'peak time of the year' his tortoise eats 2 cucumbers in a week, freely.. 3 or 4 different type of weeds , some tomato, half a banana, spoonful of dog food and/or crushed snails...'right'...and so his 'instructions' carried on.
I have 'bad' habit of checking given instructions or advice..and yet again, it proved to be not a bad decision..and numerous tortoise advice does seem to speak against long hibernation in unstable temperatures and what about the diet..!!!
I daren't to tell him what 'current' tortoise instructions are According to the chap, he takes his tortoise to vet yearly, just for little MOT check up (I don't doubt his words!!) and rarely they find anything wrong with his tort.
It just makes me feel like I'm fretting over too much of 'doing it all correctly'..or am I? Either tortoises are tougher creatures than I give credit for..or are we making it more complicated than it is necessary
I know he don't have not artificial lighting, he don't 'do' computers so all his knowledge picked up from TV and trying to figure out what is tortoises nature and perhaps he has seen a library book or two in past.
His tortoise live most of the year in his garden, in built up 'pen' and every evening he collects the tortoise into garage and return it back outside in the morning. It is kept indoors when the weather gets bit too 'rough'. I doubt he has ever given any supplements to it neither!
No wonder I've earned questioning raised eye brows from him when I have been 'reporting' back my newly learned tortoise husbandry.
There must be countless similar cases/stories around..and though I'm not going to start correcting him in this stage, nor is he trying to tell me what I should do. Our 'over the fence' chats have always been, take it or leave it basis..but I just can help but wonder how those tortoises do cope with us!!!

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Finsky

When I had my new tortoise, I couldn't wait to see my allotment neighbour to tell my news and ask some advise.
My neighbour is in his 80's and kept his tortoise going for 50 odd years...so surely he can't be doing that bad..?!
Over the years I've always listened his tortoise stories, though this time, with now shared interest, I did pay more attention for his wisdom.
He told me how his tortoise 'go to bed' in October into unheated garage and it doesn't come out until he hears waking up noises, usually in March time...'right'...n 'peak time of the year' his tortoise eats 2 cucumbers in a week, freely.. 3 or 4 different type of weeds , some tomato, half a banana, spoonful of dog food and/or crushed snails...'right'...and so his 'instructions' carried on.
I have 'bad' habit of checking given instructions or advice..and yet again, it proved to be not a bad decision..and numerous tortoise advice does seem to speak against long hibernation in unstable temperatures and what about the diet..!!!
I daren't to tell him what 'current' tortoise instructions are According to the chap, he takes his tortoise to vet yearly, just for little MOT check up (I don't doubt his words!!) and rarely they find anything wrong with his tort.
It just makes me feel like I'm fretting over too much of 'doing it all correctly'..or am I? Either tortoises are tougher creatures than I give credit for..or are we making it more complicated than it is necessary
I know he don't have not artificial lighting, he don't 'do' computers so all his knowledge picked up from TV and trying to figure out what is tortoises nature and perhaps he has seen a library book or two in past.
His tortoise live most of the year in his garden, in built up 'pen' and every evening he collects the tortoise into garage and return it back outside in the morning. It is kept indoors when the weather gets bit too 'rough'. I doubt he has ever given any supplements to it neither!
No wonder I've earned questioning raised eye brows from him when I have been 'reporting' back my newly learned tortoise husbandry.
There must be countless similar cases/stories around..and though I'm not going to start correcting him in this stage, nor is he trying to tell me what I should do. Our 'over the fence' chats have always been, take it or leave it basis..but I just can help but wonder how those tortoises do cope with us!!!

Tortoises are a lot tougher than most think. Too many keepers make it more complicated by treating them like they are a domesticated animal, instead of a wild one in captivity.
The gentleman above, has not got the husbandry correct as most do today. But he and his tortoise have worked out a way to survive. His tortoise has been allowed to adjust to our weather over the years. And by the sounds of things does not use chemicals in his garden, and so his tortoise gets a good enough diet.
It sounds as though he has also been lucky too.
I am not at all saying what he does is right, but not all of it is wrong.
The diet is definitely wrong. But it sounds like his tortoise wakes up when the weather is good enough, and gets going. It also sounds like the tortoise starts to wind down himself when the days get colder and shorter. Which is what they are programmed to do.
We as keepers now, over do the heating, no tortoise gets the same heat through out the day, which is recommended by most. They have varying temps during the day. The temps at night in the wild can drop as low as ours, and sometimes lower. So keepers insist on keeping heat at night, which is not right.
I think wild, not captivity. My tortoises tend to start to windown around September (not this year as its been a bad one) by the end of Oct beginning of Nov they are ready to go down. I let mine bury down in the GH, and they come up in the Spring when they are ready. They live outside with the use of the GH all year round.

[CherryBrandy]

I have v old tortoise books that recommend feeding carrion etc and dog food is mentioned. I suppose some got their protein that way in the wild, might be no different to eating a snail full of protein. The v v elderly one I adopted was fed on toast and sausages some days. Just like humans some survive longer than others even if not good diets and right husbandry. Good job there is plenty more knowledge out there and choices. CB

[Finsky]

I think wild, not captivity.

Oh I do agree with that very much. Though I do understand all the recommended 'numbers' that are quoted being most ideal conditions.
If the 'wild' would only be so...and yet they still manage to cope. I have wondered if giving the safe optimum conditions are that good for them and does really any favours for them in a long run. Is that wearing nature's 'toughness' out of them?
And I do understand from their 'owners' point of view, we want to feel that we do 'best' for them. I do too fall to this with all my pets, sometimes 'mothering' them so that the action itself is starting to bore them I have to remember let them be what they are created to be...even if I have to remind my dog "yes, you are dog...behave like it!!"
My neighbour recommended to me keeping Putin up and not allowing it hibernate for not knowing its back round and how it has been kept. Yes, it did sounded like good advice and after checking it from other sources, that's what I was setting to do....but Putin decided otherwise, and who am I to argue with..it if is so sleepy and in need of it as it showed..so be it. Letting nature do its thing under my watchful eye..
Oh dear....this bad weather and 'nothing to do' is taking toll out of my brain cells..so booooring and I have to spend my energy for something, hence thinking too much
..and too much rattle too...

[wigwamman]

thinking about all the tortoises that were imported into northern europe in the 50s/70s and quickly perished, all that they needed was a shelter of some sort and a 60watt light bulb,i'm sure most would still be alive today!

[CherryBrandy]

Originally Posted by wigwamman

thinking about all the tortoises that were imported into northern europe in the 50s/70s and quickly perished, all that they needed was a shelter of some sort and a 60watt light bulb,i'm sure most would still be alive today!

yes it is an interesting one I admit. I love reading about timothy at Selborne. he was bought in by sailors and paid for by a lady at the docks - never a bulb in sight and stayed out all winters huddling under some bricks, wood pile and a broken cloche. lived on the lettuce grown in the garden, along with the cabbage and weeds. Though I keep mine as natural as possible I would panic a bit I think if I didn't keep tabs on them... rubbish at growing cabbage so they don't need to worry. I must admit though my Horsfields haven't been under a bulb for over 20 odd years....very tufty little things. (dont fair well damp or wet of course). CB

[Catwoman63]

I will still keep mine nice and warm and protected.....they are my pets after all

If I shoved my terrestris outside they would die! I do have overnight heat at around 20c for the terrestris, if not on very cold nights they would get RNS, as they do not tolerate the cold x

[sandy]

Originally Posted by wigwamman

thinking about all the tortoises that were imported into northern europe in the 50s/70s and quickly perished, all that they needed was a shelter of some sort and a 60watt light bulb,i'm sure most would still be alive today!

But there are still more than you think still alive. Especially where keepers had a good garden supply of suitable foods.
Lots of older longer kept tortoises are coming up for rehoming,l as their keepers are getting older. These keepers had tortoises before the internet was here, so good info was not around. Some have adjusted their husbandry, some have not:0(
I agree a lot died, but how many do we know that die now because of wrong husbandry?

[Jan W]

I work in research, so I just know that there will be changes to what we are doing now!

I am afraid I do fuss over mine but try to do what is most natural and the forum is really helping me. I started off over protective, based on friends stories, so use of heat lamps at night too, bringing them in during summer months if it seemed a bit chilly at night.

I am hoping that from this spring that they will live in their new home all year, either in their covered house and outside. Rather than controlling their hibernation I will try and be more relaxed. This latter part will be a huge step forward as I heard about torts that don't always wake up.

Not sure this helps, just my continuing journey.
Jan

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Jan W

I work in research, so I just know that there will be changes to what we are doing now!

I am afraid I do fuss over mine but try to do what is most natural and the forum is really helping me. I started off over protective, based on friends stories, so use of heat lamps at night too, bringing them in during summer months if it seemed a bit chilly at night.

I am hoping that from this spring that they will live in their new home all year, either in their covered house and outside. Rather than controlling their hibernation I will try and be more relaxed. This latter part will be a huge step forward as I heard about torts that don't always wake up.

Not sure this helps, just my continuing journey.
Jan

Living where you do will help with them living outside:0)
We are all over protective of our tortoises. Its only when you have a little experience that you can relax some what:0)
Watching and learning from tortoises also helps a lot too!