Well Worth a Read

[Bindi]

Originally Posted by Anita Sayles

That's the way I read it Bindi, I found that quite worrying.
Substrates are also much colder out of a lamps 'range'. While I agree there should be a cooler area I do not think large areas of the table should be cold.

Which is why the ambient room temperature is important. In a recent 'semi debate' Ed advocates the use of heat mats. Now that goes against all that I have read too, but his point was that it warms the substrate...just like the sun would warm the soil...at least that's my take on it. I'm not saying to everyone to go out and get a heat mat, but if the ambient temps of the room the tort is kept in ishigher and so the substrate is lightly warmer then he won't need to spend so long basking directly under a lamp

[Alan1]

Maybe basking lamps are not required at all, maybe they are doing more harm than good

[Bindi]

Well, another debateable point, It's my belief that torts need heat from above to warm their core, however, I don't think Ed uses lamps for his Horsfields...

[Anita Sayles]

Originally Posted by Bindi

Which is why the ambient room temperature is important. In a recent 'semi debate' Ed advocates the use of heat mats. Now that goes against all that I have read too, but his point was that it warms the substrate...just like the sun would warm the soil...at least that's my take on it. I'm not saying to everyone to go out and get a heat mat, but if the ambient temps of the room the tort is kept in ishigher and so the substrate is lightly warmer then he won't need to spend so long basking directly under a lamp

Exactly and just the point I was trying to make in the TTF yesterday - a heatmat in part of the table. We are not forcing the tort to use it we are merely giving him a choice.
Also one could observe how much the tortoise was using that area, we would soon see if the warmer area was more comfortable or the tortoise wasn't bothering to use it.
They wouldn't need to bask for as long - also they'd be warm right the way through.
Would tortoises need to be woken up in the morning and bathed, I don't think so... they don't have a bath everyday in the wild to get them going. This it seems has it problems regarding infection also...
Just my thoughts

[yuna1971]

Originally Posted by caledonia

no skim reading either

Lol, Al...yeah that was what I was thinking...
I gotta problem with that...!!

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Bindi

Well, another debateable point, It's my belief that torts need heat from above to warm their core, however, I don't think Ed uses lamps for his Horsfields...

he uses ordinary house bulbs for some torts, can't remember what ones though

[Beverley]

I found it interesting Reading as well. Some of my torts are in a heated shed due to Stars being in there the temp does not go below 20c at night, many mornings I go out the torts are up before I put lamps on, also if I just put on the lights, no heatlamps, they are quite active.

[Bindi]

My issue with heat mats is that I've read torts have burned themselves. Even if they're buried under substrate, what's to stop them digging down and laying on them.

I think there are two-ish general methods of keeping torts.

Those that keep them, as pets, using tried and tested basic methods i.e standard heat and light, basic substrate, basic food, whether it's pellets or weeds. Generally doing all the things necessary to keep a tort relatively healthy and active.

And those that try to follow a 'naturalistic method' those that go the extra mile to see that their torts get an existance as close to their natural habitat and diet as possible.

[Alan1]

MV bulbs have not been going long enough to know exactly what effect they are having, for all we know the methods used in the 70's might be closer to the mark. When something new comes along onto the market we don't really know if it really is for the benefit of the animals or if it is for financial gain first and foremost

[Bindi]

Trouble is Alan, most if not all of those torts in the '70s were adults. That's the big thing IMO. Their skeleton and growth had already been done, in the wild. Most new keepres are now raising hatchlings and the right care is critical to their development.