how much is enough?

[EJ]

It is interesting. Is the protein percentage listed as dry matter protein or wet matter protein? Is it an average protein content?

I don't think the protein requirement has yet to be established for tortoises yet.

Again... we are talking about plant protein.

So... what is 'too much protein'?... which is not really the point here. The question was what is 'too much'... as far as a mixed variety of grocery greens... I don't think there is such a thing as too much.

Originally Posted by red foot marg

very interesting , one thing to take into consideration when feeding bagged foods is there protein content , for example romaine lettuce contains 30 % protein !, in fact most bagged foods contain high levels of protein which isn't a good thing without being ballanced up with high level's of fibre ! . To take up Alans point , well you do get wild rabbits eating crops such as lettuce but in reality they mainly eat grass and clover !!.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by stells

I'm not trying to draw anybody anywhere... just having a discussion...

What about when they are active and eating all they can find... how do we know how much they are eating then... again this is a Sulcata... not a hibernating med tortoise...

This is why i hate the "in the wild" theory... to many factors that we just do not know...

yes we do know , we know that there food is restricted , surely the reader is bright enough to see this.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by EJ

It is interesting. Is the protein percentage listed as dry matter protein or wet matter protein? Is it an average protein content?

I don't think the protein requirement has yet to be established for tortoises yet.

Again... we are talking about plant protein.

So... what is 'too much protein'?... which is not really the point here. The question was what is 'too much'... as far as a mixed variety of grocery greens... I don't think there is such a thing as too much.

yes you do have a point there, i was talking about wet protein , i understand that tortoise's need lower levels of protein compared to a mammal which would require around 0.5g of usable protein per kg of body weight.

[egyptiandan64]

Not sure where you got the 30% protein for Romaine lettuce, but what I found for Romaine lettuce was 1.6% protein. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...itionalprofile
Romaine lettuce is actually pretty good nutrition wise.
I'm sure in the wild that a tortoise that wanted more food would walk a bit further than usual from the burrow. The only thing that would be different at different times of the year would be the nutritional and water content of said food.

Danny

[NATURALIS]

ok, this is too childish for me !!

[EJ]

that's kind of the point I was trying to highlight... it depends on where you get your information... dry/wet matter... and then some.

the rest is spot on.

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

Not sure where you got the 30% protein for Romaine lettuce, but what I found for Romaine lettuce was 1.6% protein. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...itionalprofile
Romaine lettuce is actually pretty good nutrition wise.
I'm sure in the wild that a tortoise that wanted more food would walk a bit further than usual from the burrow. The only thing that would be different at different times of the year would be the nutritional and water content of said food.

Danny

[NATURALIS]

http://www.graeca-home.de/GraecaNUNa...elle2Frame.htm

[EJ]

I'm almost affraid to respond to this because of the thought that it might be perceived as an attack... You bring out some seriously important points that are good topics of discussion...

How do you know tortoises need lower levels of protein? The important point I like to stress is that a tortoise is a reptile and the metabolism/protein requirement is temperature dependent. I would also assume that any protein not required would be expelled.

Originally Posted by red foot marg

yes you do have a point there, i was talking about wet protein , i understand that tortoise's need lower levels of protein compared to a mammal which would require around 0.5g of usable protein per kg of body weight.

[EJ]

Sorry you feel that way. This is a very important topic that should be discussed whenever possible to hopefully get some new meaningful input. It is a very ambiguous topic with no real definative answer.(imho)

Originally Posted by red foot marg

ok, this is too childish for me !!

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by stells

Thats fine Chris... but would like to know what was childish... its a discussion... we don't have to agree... it also doesn't mean we can't still be friendly... i don't see where i did something wrong here... just for having my own opinion...

Ths wasn't meant personaly , but the quote : (old school ) is still the best school ,i understand where your comming from re: keeping the heat on and light's , but thats something i don't do it isn't natural ,i really try to add to these debates but lets not forget where not fatening animals up like cattle here !!.