HAMM , the view from an exhibition contractor - PLEASE READ

[chris_walton]

from what i believed those animals where all the same persons as the post made it sound liek a couple of boxs from a few people which it wasnt

ok this has gone on and on

i went to the show with a view to have a look around and gain some experience of what german shows where like i knew the tpg where going under cover

so i went with an open mind as i didnt know what to expect we arrived at 7 in the morning outside the hamm show and there was no one around till 9 this is when they all started going in and setting up there stalls and the public were not allowed in till 10

so we joined to clue and made our way through the crowds into the building where there was lots of nicely set up stalls and sellers we had a good look around and jp mini morris decided he was going to buy some torts so we had a look around asked questions asked to look at paperwork and so on which is where we found people with torts behind the scenes in boxs of show which they rotated there paper work was excellent and in order with names we had already heard of as the breeder
after he had chosen his torts the correct papers were found for them with photos on and jp had to give his name and adress and the torts were packed up in boxs ready for the off this whole process took around half an hour to do unlike if you go to the petshop this process can take all of ten minutes

obviously i saw some bad things but i really did think in my opinion that alot of the things seamed in good health and great condition and there was plenty of help if you wanted to ask questions like i said before there was a lady selling sulcatas and she was actually putting irrasponsible owners buying them as she was showing how big they can actually get she had a well represented stand with good information all around it

on the other hand there were the bad sellers but i cant really call them that after reading the shows guildlines for selling the animals for instance the turtles in the tubs didnt seam to have enough water but it does say in the sellers guildlines they have to have around 2cm of water in each tub

i must stress i didnt buy any torts i didnt go looking to buy animals but did buy some tarantulas and some frogs and some stick insects all were captive bred and the sellers were extremly helpfull

like i said before i didnt go looking for bad things i just went for the experience and to enjoy myself

and what did i learn from my experience at hamm

well never to post pictures thats for sure lol

some people asked me would i go again and the answer is yes i would
some people also asked me if i would buy tortoises from hamm and i said yes BUT there is a right way of doing it and a wrong way there are plenty of german breeders out there who you can contact before the show and arrange to meet them there this way you can get an idea about the person and there animals

to me it was a bit like grocery shopping but not in the sense that some of you will pick up on
if you go to the super market and want to buy bannas and theres only two left and one is the most beautifull banna you have ever seen and the other is bruised and brown which one do you pick
what im trying to say is you go to the show and you have a choice you can choose to ignore what you have seen and search for more of just buy on impulse which most people would do and im not one of those people

chris x x

[Pies]

Originally Posted by swad1000

Lots of other threads aren't constructive either, but they still continue, as members of the forum wish to continue posting in them.

And if those animals hadn't been transported back they wouldn't have died, part of the reason for this thread is that things like that can, and obviously do happen, so people are against such shows, and the way the animals are transported afterwards. Its all part of a bigger story, and directly relates to the Hamm show.

Thank you Swad, saved me from pointing this out, again. I have pointed it out before, even in my last post. Just goes to show that our 'against Hamm' side is not being given full and proper attention. No wonder the 'for Hamm' side can't see, they do not wish to look, for fear of what they might see.

[chris_walton]

the coaches have been going backwards and forwards for years and this is the only time it has happened and its only happened to one person and the post mortem of the animals has not yet shown anything everyone else were in the same situation and there animals are fine

does it mean if you went in your own car this would happen ??????

im sure it runs the same risk as being transported by any reptile courier

and who said there is for and against hamm

i dont have opinion i just wanted to prove there are both sides to every story if you have the information
dont you think i would have said this in my original post if i felt it was nescessary
i just went for a look round and a break not to cause upset or up roar on the forum if i wanted to do that im sure it would be easily done as most people dont understand me anyway lol


chris

[Pies]

Chris said "im sure it runs the same risk as being transported by any reptile courier"
Precisely one of the points I made in my original post and one good reason why such events are not suited to reptiles! Had this coach turned over because of a fault in it's susspension and people killed, there would have been uproar.

I am not disputing that there were some responsible traders there. The post on the Boa Constrictor site proves that. He will not go again unless he is assured of better conditions. But again I say that reptiles are not suited to exhibitions parse.

Please don’t misunderstand me Chris, my original post was not, nor was intended to be a personal attack on you. It was to point out a system of which I would not expect you to be aware. I think I have made my position quite clear. Animal welfare.

[imported_Lowe]

Originally Posted by Pies

So the thread is to be closed, I wondered when that would happen.

I think the thread has served its purpose, and is now being used to stir trouble. If you wish to discuss things further, PM me.

Yet Ann's question re other sites remains unanswered. The same question I posed & had removed before it was seen by more than 2 members and for which I too was assured of help to leave the forum.

Ann's questions have been addressed privately, and that is the way it will stay.i

I do not think anyone has been making snide remarks, nor bullying or intimidating. I would agree that the debate has become a little heated at times, but then, that’s the nature of the beast, and it comes from the apparent unwillingness of some parties to accept the overwhelming evidence, and interpretation of that evidence, by those of us who are not so blind that we cannot see. No offence intended.

No offense taken. The comments weren't purely referring to this thread but the forum and tortoise 'world' as a whole. I've seen a lot of undesirable behaviour as of late.

If I have missed any such offensive remarks, or made some remarks myself which could be construed as offensive or ungainly, then I apologise, as I am sure others would too.

I'll take that up with you in private if need be.

Now, close the thread if you will, you do not end the debate, nor do you solve the problem.

If I deem the debate has reached a conclusion be it the desired one or otherwise, I will end the debate on this forum. By all means start another thread so long as it's not going over ground already covered, else that will be locked as well. When a thread descends into bickering and users questioning the integrity of the forum of which they are posting on, I think it's time to put an end to it. I think that's a fairly sensible course of action.