Selling wild caught redfoots

[EJ]

Farmed is becoming popular.

Originally Posted by Watermelon

A pet shop I know... they get tortoises in about 3 years old.... are these likely to be wild caught?

[FLINTUS]

Originally Posted by EJ

Food for thought... there would be no captive animals if not for wild caught animals... kind of a silly point if you think about it.

The best one I love is Leopard Geckos... 300 to 400 when they were first imported... we are talking normals. Today... 10 to 15 each... retail.

When I see all animal keepers give up their pets in the name of... I'll give a great deal more respect to this line of thought.

So are you saying that it is right to have wild caught animals?! If so you should be ashamed of yourself. Yes captive bred animals come from wild lines but it is not like you can release them now-they do not have the survival skills they used to have after being captive. I notice you have a lot of controversial views, including that you think Tesco should be able to carry on brutally killing and selling Chelonia in China. Just a question, do you get your animals wild caught?

[EJ]

I don't think it is really a right... but it is a necessity.

To the comment of rerelease... look into the many head start programs involving chelonia the world over.

I do get wild caught animals and will continue to do so as long as they are available... and will continue to broker them to all those hypocritical chelonian keepers who seek obtain these animals on the sly while openly professing how the practice should be stopped.

Originally Posted by FLINTUS

So are you saying that it is right to have wild caught animals?! If so you should be ashamed of yourself. Yes captive bred animals come from wild lines but it is not like you can release them now-they do not have the survival skills they used to have after being captive. I notice you have a lot of controversial views, including that you think Tesco should be able to carry on brutally killing and selling Chelonia in China. Just a question, do you get your animals wild caught?

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by EJ

Food for thought... there would be no captive animals if not for wild caught animals... kind of a silly point if you think about it.

The best one I love is Leopard Geckos... 300 to 400 when they were first imported... we are talking normals. Today... 10 to 15 each... retail.

When I see all animal keepers give up their pets in the name of... I'll give a great deal more respect to this line of thought.

I totally agree with you on this one but !!! i think importing wild animals for the pet trade should stop now !!!! , we should make the most of breeding the animal's already here instead of simply replacing them.

[FLINTUS]

Originally Posted by EJ

I don't think it is really a right... but it is a necessity.

To the comment of rerelease... look into the many head start programs involving chelonia the world over.

I do get wild caught animals and will continue to do so as long as they are available... and will continue to broker them to all those hypocritical chelonian keepers who seek obtain these animals on the sly while openly professing how the practice should be stopped.

Yes, of course there are breeding programmes to release them back into the wild but this takes a long time. In the mean time, captive-bred should be bought and the captive-farmed tortoises should be assessed as some farms treat their tortoises very badly-most actually.

[Merlin M]

Originally Posted by NATURALIS

I totally agree with you on this one but !!! i think importing wild animals for the pet trade should stop now !!!! , we should make the most of breeding the animal's already here instead of simply replacing them.

I agree with you there, there is a place for wild caught at first but once people start captive breeding there is just no need for it!

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by stells

I'm afraid i am going to say... that there will still be the need for new blood lines... even with everyone captive breeding... as eventually everything would become inbred. Everyone gets "excited" whether they agree or disagree with the practise... about new blood lines... in every breeding circle... the only way to get those is from WC and imported stocks.

Sorry i don't agree ..... there's a big enough gene pool of most tortoise's already in the uk to keep the breed's going for hundreds of years

[EJ]

With the influx of farmed tortoises you do not often see wild caught tortoises in the general pet trade. Most go to reptile specialty shops because most are pretty regulated.

Most of the keepers I know usually purchase the tortoises with the intent of breeding and do not acquire the tortoise just as general pets.

Originally Posted by NATURALIS

I totally agree with you on this one but !!! i think importing wild animals for the pet trade should stop now !!!! , we should make the most of breeding the animal's already here instead of simply replacing them.

[EJ]

From where does the founding stock for these captive bred tortoises originate?

Where do you get your information on these tortoise farms. The way I understand it many of these farms are working on multigeneration animals so they can't be treated all that bad.

I've posted some photos of a farm in Slovenia that keep their animals quite well and I've seen photos of Redfoot farms that are equally as amazing.

Originally Posted by FLINTUS

Yes, of course there are breeding programmes to release them back into the wild but this takes a long time. In the mean time, captive-bred should be bought and the captive-farmed tortoises should be assessed as some farms treat their tortoises very badly-most actually.

[EJ]

That is still short sighted because there should be new blood added. Another point is that the demise of these animals is not primarily over collecting but is due to the loss of habitat which is only going to get worse.

Originally Posted by NATURALIS

Sorry i don't agree ..... there's a big enough gene pool of most tortoise's already in the uk to keep the breed's going for hundreds of years