Urgent - ill tortoise & vets in Oxford

[queenofjericho]

Hello,

This forum has been my bible since I got my gorgeous little tortoise 6 months ago, and have learnt everything possible by searching - I'm so grateful to everyone for creating such a wonderful source of information and allowing non-members to access it. I really wanted to join ages ago but I'm very disabled and typing is difficult, so I can't write many emails / messages.

I just joined now because my Herman, Florence, is really ill and I don't know what to do. I got her taken in to a vet last week, because she was so weak and not eating. I've been told they're reptile specialists (they're in Chipping Norton, for anyone who knows the area) and they say they specialise in tortoises. But after she'd been in there for a day they said I might as well take her home and give her baths in reptoboost, because that's all they would do.

They gave me very little information at the time, and told me they couldn't do any blood tests or anything because she's too small (she's about two, hatched in 2007). I asked about antibiotics, and he gave them to me but didn't seem particularly bothered. She was slowly getting stronger, and drinnking a bit but still not eating. I kept ringing them and they just repeated their advice.

Anyway, she's suddenly seemed a lot weaker again in the last day and a half. (I don't know if it's a coincidence, but at about the time the antibiotics ran out). I rang the vets again today and spoke to a different vet. He looked in her file, and I happened to ask if she'd been weighed. He said she had and was 80g. I couldn't believe it as this meant she had lost 20G.

He told me that once a tortoise had lost this amount of weight the prognosis was very bad, and that it was very hard for them to come back from it. What I don't understand, is if they knew how much weight she had lost when she was in the veterinary hospital, why didn't they tube feed her then? Why on earth did they send her back to me without telling me!!!

This same vets practice wants to take her in again tommorrow and I don't know what to do!!! They said they'd tube feed her then, which would obviously be good, but why should I trust them? It seems like they've just decided she's going to die already!

ANY advice anyone can give me - whether you think I should trust this vet's and send her in, if anyone knows anything about this vets practice, or a better one in the area?

Also, the vet gave me some Critical Care Formula. My husband wonders if we'd be better off feeding her that with a syringe, which we started doing today, rather than taking her to stay at the vets.

My husband is back now, so he can drive her wherever. It's been awful, as he's been away and because of my disability he's the one that takes her to the vet, and does all the physical stuff for her (though I'm the one with the information!). My sister's been here helping me and of course she doesn't know anything about tortoises, which is partly I suppose why it's all got this bad.

By the way, the one theory I had for why she might be ill is because my sister, not knowing, hadn't been cleaning out her water bowl, and by the time I noticed it had green algae growing in it and was really disgusting. When we first cleaned it out she drank tons and tons, which gave me so much hope, but that was a week ago now.

I'll be so so grateful if anyone can give me any advice. I'm so scared, because I know from reading this forum how bad the signs are, and because the vet kept her weight from me I've only just found out. My husband and I had been planning on getting a Hermann for years, and he gave her to me as his wedding present. Stupid of us really, to have our marriage linked to a living animal so symbolically, but we can't handle the thought of her dying!

With much thanks,
Lucy

[finchy]

Hi Lucy

Sorry to hear about your tort . If you aren’t happy with the vet you could always go to a different one.

Although I haven't used him myself, Bruce Maclean seems to be highly recommended by others on this site. He is based in Reading which isn’t too far from Oxford (I think).
http://www.herpvet.co.uk/BEAVS%20Inf...20Policies.htm

Hope that helps

[Madhouse]

HI ya Lucy - big warm welcome to Shelled Warriors from me. Im so sorry to hear about little Florence. I dont have any advice cos like you Im still fairly new to it all and I've not had to deal with any of mine being poorly yet. The only thing I was going to say is that tortoises like us humans will weigh differently on different scales so try not to panic yourself too much with regards to the weight loss - it could be a false reading as such. Maybe you could give the other vet a ring and ask their advice - she needs to go somewhere where you and your husband are happy and confident they will do their very best for your little one. Loads of good luck vibes from me here to you and Florence and fingers crossed she'll soon be on the mend. Big hugs to you and Florence, take care

[sandy]

This is a difficult one.
Did the vets not do a poo test?
Are there any other symptoms?
Being lathargic can be a sign of worms or protezoa loads.
Where did you get your tortoise from?
I would suggest you keep on bathing in the reptiboost and keep the temps up.
Then find another vet who might be more knowledgable.

[rachel30b]

hi welcome to the forum

can you tell us a little bit more about your tort, where you got her from, pet shop/breeder, what sort of set up he lives in, temps etc substrate

did the vet suggest testing for worms and parasites??

when you say weak do you mean , sleeping alot and not eating much

how long is your tort, head to bum with legs tucked in measurement

what foods are you giving him, have you recently changed food, added anything like supplements which she be turning his nose up at

sorry for all the questions but this would give us a clearer picture

is he any different when outside, ie more active, does he snack on the grass etc

[rachel30b]

sandy beat me to it

[shellshock]

Hi Lucy . I am sorry about your little tortoise I really hope it gets better soon . Lucy I am not an expert on torts and some one more knowledgeable will be on here soon to give more advice , but have you bathed your tort since the other day as it might be dehydrated , Reptoboost has vitamins and minerals in it so a daily soak would help as they absorb it through their tail end, and they can go without food for some time but not water ,anyway I hope this helps a little .



Jane

[queenofjericho]

Thank you so much for all your replies. Thought nobody had replied because my stupid computer only just showed them up!

What really worries me is that the vet didn't talk about doing any tests at all, including from a poo sample - apart from saying he couldn't do a blood test because she was too small. I'm sure I've heard of other 2 year olds on this forum having blood tests, or am I wrong?

She's 9.5cm long SCL, now 80g down from 103, lives in a tortoise table under UV and basking lamp, eats nothing but weeds. She was outside a lot, but recently falls asleep immediately and clearly doesn't like it so we keep her inside. The room temperature is warm - 25 ish because of my disability including at night time, and it's 35 ish in the hottest place under her lamp. (I've also been wondering, should I be keeping her in the hottest place at the moment? It'd be hard for her to choose somewhere else as she's so weak).

Now, she can only walk a few steps, responds sometimes to touch, sleeps most of the time or sits quietly with her eyes open. Formerly she was extremely energetic. When I give her critical care formula with a syringe she can at least fight back with more strength than I would have thought!

The only change to her habitat / food has been the algae I mentioned that was growing in the water bowl, and other general dirt that was in there. (Couldn't believe the state of it when I saw it).

I really want to take her to the vet you mention - Bruce in Reading, I've read all the posts about him and he sounds wonderful, but am worried it might be too late by the time we get an appt.

Can ANYONE advice me on how much Critical Care Formula it is wise to give? If I knew that, I could keep that going myself along with the reptoboost baths, until we can get her to see him.

I noticed that at least a couple of people who post here - Nina, I think, and Desdemona? also live in Oxford, and if anyone's heard of the Chipping Norton practice I'd be so grateful.

Oh, also, unfortunately I bought her from a reptile shop. Assured she was captive bred etc etc. Her paperwork actually said she was four, and have only had it confirmed by them that they sent me the wrong paperwork and she was actually hatched in 2007. It says Slovenia, so because of everything I've read here I fear the worst as far as wild / captive is concerned, but on the other hand they seem sure she was hatched in 2007 and she was being sold along with 8 of the same size.

Thank you so much for your moral support, it means an awful lot, and I'm veering towards holding off till we can see the vet in Reading, if it's possible to get advice from here to do the best for her in the meantime.

Thank you again,

Lucy

[Eire_Ade]

Hi Lucy,

Firstly I would like to welcome you out to the forum from the outer limits where you have been observing.

I am sorry to hear your little tortoise isnt well, I would be going with your gut instincts here, if you are dissatisfied with you present treatment I would not waste anymore time and get the tortoise to another reputable tortoise specialist, to me t sounds like the others might only be reptile vets not tortoise vets.

Please keep us updated, and I hope this story has a happy ending.

Ade

[sandy]

If the temps are at 35 degrees that is far too hot for most med torts. She needs to be kept warm when on antibiotics.
But a normal healthy tortoise will only sleep if temps are that high all or most of the time. Or dig down in substrate.
What substrate are you using?