Reply from Tesco

[Geomyda]

"The main argument I have with Tesco is that whilst I fully understand the differences in cultures it is wrong for a UK company like Tesco to get involved, especially as they now represent the UK on a global scale. I wonder how many of their shareholders know about the this trade."

Well said, the next Shareholders meeting of Tesco plc will be next month, a timely batch of letters addressed to their Chairman might be worth considering
"Every Lidl Helps"

[Lou]

Ibiza, I disagree with your point here.

Tesco are a businss, they are a "profit" oranisation. I hardly think they care whether or not we keep torts as pets. They are simply being a business and conforming to the demand of the culture they intend to sell produce in. Not selling this product would be stupid for them to do. Shareholders I am sure are shareholders for one reason and one reason only . Money. Tesco are not represting the UK, and to be honest, I dont think its supermarkets we should worry about... there are far more listened to bodies who do a good enough job of messing that up!

My earlier question regarding whether or not tesco source their torts from farms or not still hasn't really been answered?? more the issue of what farming can cause. If indeed tesco do source their torts from the wild (which I would be hugely surprised at) then yes, this DOES Need to be addressed.

In regard to the lobster, your kidding arnt you? In the states they have tanks of lobster for you to pick from. Fishmongers here do the same. Regardless of whether we keep them as pets, does that make them less of a viable animal?

Different coutries / religions have different cultures, this is something in this day and age you would think people would understand. These animals are bred for the sole purpose of food (the farmed ones) they are not going round collecting pets up and slaughtering them. I keep fish... do you think I think twice about eating fish....

I am not fortunate enough to be able to buy free range food. I sadly do not have that option due to the cost, however, where I can, I do.

Your right, it is easy to stick your head in the sand and say "we do it with other animals" because we dont see the end to end process. This country is fortunate enough to not see the animal we are eating because its all pre wrapped and made to look good.

Interesting comment on the you dont buy anything unless its free range. Do you know how all the animal product you eat is killed? things like geletine in yoghurt? jelly? certain chocolate? etc ... it is practically impossible to monitor everything we are eating. Tinned crab is put alive on a belt while its body is held down and 4 blades come down to cut its limbs off. Fish are also not free range as far as I am aware.

Keeping animals as pets does not mean you should be agaist it being eaten in different cultures .

I do hope no one takes any of these comments personally.

[Geomyda]

Louise, Tesco do buy their Softshell Turtles from "Chinese Farms", but the sustainability of this practice is questioned by some of the most eminent Herprtologists in the world.
What is also very interesting is the fact that the scientific paper commisioned by Tesco plc, to support its activities in mainland China, which let me tell you is a voluminous document that is really very badly put together. It has a picture of a Softshell Turtle on it's front cover, that is mis identified as a Chinese Softshell Turtle (Pelodiscus sinensis). It is in fact, a Florida Soft Shell Turtle (Apalone ferox)--- Need one say more!!!

[ibizathetort]

You're dead right Lou - I'm not sure how all of my animal products are killed - education here is the key. I do know however about the state of the turtle trade in china and I have taken the decision to stop Tesco getting any of my money to support it from now on. Hopefully more and more people will become aware of it too, just like what happened here in our country - did you see the spate of programming C4 ran with Jamie etc on how our animals are farmed/killed and the differences between freedom and free range food?

I know our own house isnt exactly in order but that doesnt mean to say we can ignore this issue

[EJ]

awwww... raw oysters... you can hear them scream going down...

Originally Posted by anna m

You wouldn't.




I must admit I don't understand why we permit Halal meat (slawter) in this country. (It does sound cruel)

[EJ]

Paul... the papers are biased... ie... bunny huggers... to use a phrase... extremists... . I have the understanding that the TSA understands the position I'm taking and is teaching to properly farm these animals for whatever reason... that's the way to go.

Again... we need to seek a middle of the road and I can think of only one orgaization that is trying...

This... 'you have to do it this way'... is not only wrong but it is not going to work.

[Lou]

Yeh, I did see the C4 stuff... very good programme's. People should be aware of what goes on behind the scene's. I really think we should see more of them, bring home a little whats on our plates.

As Ed said, there needs to be a middle of the road. Stopping people from eating what is culteral to them or telling them HOW to do it is never going to work. Farming the animals in the correct "legal" way is, we all know these animals are never going to be treated with the upmost dignity but this isn't the most profitable way to do it. Making these animals (here and in China) all free range, organic, leading happy life's means more cost and that cost is passed onto who? us the consumer... I for one can not afford to see that increase and I don't know of many people who can.

Sadly, no one is ever going to be 100% happy with the way animals are farmed , or which animals are sold. I really think you should direct your fight onto helping find that "middle ground" rather than the prevention. It will happen anyway, accepting it and helping better it may be the best way to go.

L x

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by EJ

Paul... the papers are biased... ie... bunny huggers... to use a phrase... extremists... . I have the understanding that the TSA understands the position I'm taking and is teaching to properly farm these animals for whatever reason... that's the way to go.

Again... we need to seek a middle of the road and I can think of only one orgaization that is trying...

This... 'you have to do it this way'... is not only wrong but it is not going to work.

Once again Ed, your turn of phrase is typically "child like". For your information, and those of anyone else who care to investigate this subject, the views of Professor Shi Haitao, James F Parham, and Chen Tien-Hsi, which are echoed in the former text of this thread. Their work and published papers are dedicated too this subject and I suggest titles such as "Farming Endangered Turtles to Extinction in China", put into context the real story behind this subject.
Whilst of course, you are entitled to an opinion of your own, I suggest that you concentrate on the "Carapace Caressers", and leave the "Bunny huggers" to do the serious stuff.

[ibizathetort]

Its about educating people I think. Here Tesco have a great opportunity to make a difference to the way a culture treats its animals, to try and lead the way. As far as I can see they haven't taken that oppportunity. They could still make plenty of money with welfare guidelines in place, it might mean making a squillion pounds less or whatever their turnover is at the end of the year, but if I was a major shareholder or director I'd be thinking about company image too.

[alotoffluff]

Originally Posted by Lou

In regard to the livestock though, Halal meat :
"Zibah require animals to be alive and healthy at the time of slaughter, since carrion is forbidden and, jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe have to be severed by a razor sharp knife by a single swipe"

these animals are NOT stunned

All major supermarkets in the UK sell this produce. The animals here are killed NO differently to the torts we're hearing about in china... in a factory or not.

Had to just put my pennys worth in here.
Having lived with a muslim (naseems dad) for many years and having seen many goats and sheep killed the halal way in Morocco, i think stunning them is much more cruel than one swift cut to the throat. Stunning them in my opinion is inhumane and cruel.
At leat, with one cut, they are dead, but stunning them first is painful and cruel.
This is why, in our house, we only eat halal meat, although my husband is not a muslim. We just find the english way of doing things hard to stomach.

I think we have to accept that as said before, these turtles are bred to be killed in this way, and other countries do things other ways to us, and although we find it sickening and cruel, they may find our ways just as cruel.
Having said this, i still dont agree with the way these turtles are slaughtered, and i couldnt eat one!