Advice Please - Ref Article 10

matt27 · 10-04-2016, 07:25 PM

Hi all,

Does anybody have upto date info on the article 10 certificates.

I have two tortoises that I bought, both with certificates and they have both been microchipped. With the numbers attached to the certificates.

Firstly how do I go about getting the certificates updated with my name and address details on. As when I rang DEFRA, the person I spoke to didn't understand what I was talking about.

Also I have 2 eggs in the incubator, which look to be fertile and hopefully will be hatching within the next 3 weeks or so. So I will then need to apply for some certificates for them.

Once I have the certificates, if I decide to sell the hatchlings. Do I still give the certificate to the buyer, or just the number, as I have read that we have to send the certificates back. Also what is the new law with chipping Hermanns tortoises. Is it only for when they are sold and 60mm or longer.

Thanks.

Gordon · 11-04-2016, 07:41 AM

At the moment you don't need to do anything with the papers they will change them when you apply for the papers for the babies.
As for giving over babies papers you can either give them the number or a photo copy and send the original back but not many people bother as they don't do anything with them as far as I understand.

sandy · 11-04-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt27

Hi all,

Does anybody have upto date info on the article 10 certificates.

I have two tortoises that I bought, both with certificates and they have both been microchipped. With the numbers attached to the certificates.

Firstly how do I go about getting the certificates updated with my name and address details on. As when I rang DEFRA, the person I spoke to didn't understand what I was talking about.

Also I have 2 eggs in the incubator, which look to be fertile and hopefully will be hatching within the next 3 weeks or so. So I will then need to apply for some certificates for them.

Once I have the certificates, if I decide to sell the hatchlings. Do I still give the certificate to the buyer, or just the number, as I have read that we have to send the certificates back. Also what is the new law with chipping Hermanns tortoises. Is it only for when they are sold and 60mm or longer.

Thanks.

I think that you need the chip certs updated by whoever they might be.
Then send the certs and chip paperwork off to DEFRA so they change your cert name etc.
As for paperwork for hatchlings, you would then have to send the new updated certs of the parents to get paperwork for the hatchlings.
If you sell the hatchlings with paperwork (you can give away without paperwork) then you give the new owners a photo copy of the hatchling certs, and then send off the original certs for the hatchlings off to DEFRA.

Non of this actually makes sense as far as DEFRA is concerned, as they have no idea of what they are talking about (A few might but the majority have no idea). But its the law, and a money maker for DEFRA.

Gordon · 11-04-2016, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy

I think that you need the chip certs updated by whoever they might be.
Then send the certs and chip paperwork off to DEFRA so they change your cert name etc.
As for paperwork for hatchlings, you would then have to send the new updated certs of the parents to get paperwork for the hatchlings.
If you sell the hatchlings with paperwork (you can give away without paperwork) then you give the new owners a photo copy of the hatchling certs, and then send off the original certs for the hatchlings off to DEFRA.

Non of this actually makes sense as far as DEFRA is concerned, as they have no idea of what they are talking about (A few might but the majority have no idea). But its the law, and a money maker for DEFRA.

As far as I'm aware as long as you have the chip numbers on the adults papers you need not do anything with them just send them off. In the comments box on the bottom of the application for ask for them to be put in your name and if you are lucky to have someone who can be bothered they should then come back in your name but if they don't it makes no difference all they need in the future is cert number and chip number they are not bothered as to who's name is on the certificates.

emma_mcraf · 11-04-2016, 12:51 PM

I was under the impression that when they have the SSC that's it and that certificate stays with them, no matter how often they could be sold or rehomed. I'm not even sure if they'll change the name of the owner on the certificate or how much that'd cost.

Regarding the hatchlings, if you sell them under 60mm you just give a copy of their certificates you'll get from Defra (you apply for their certs using their parents chip numbers), or as mentioned by Sandy you can give them away with no paperwork, but if they're larger than 60mm (which in my eyes is way too small to be chipped) they should be chipped and their new paperwork should display their chip number and thus would be a Specimen Specific Certificate (SSC) and would remain with them for their lives, needing to be passed on any time they're sold on, etc.

Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone. It's a silly law to get your head around but that was my understanding of it.

matt27 · 20-04-2016, 08:09 PM

Thanks for all the replys guys. Does anybody have a link for where I can download the application form.

My first one hatched today and have decided to call her April. So excited now for the other one to hatch.

emma_mcraf · 20-04-2016, 08:49 PM

Congratulations, Matt.
We'd all love to see photos when you're able. Hopefully the second one will be along to join April soon.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...commercial-use

matt27 · 20-04-2016, 09:48 PM

Thanks Emma. This is the 3rd clutch I've had from this particular female and the first lot of eggs that have been viable. It's been so exciting and was lovely to see a hatchling. Thanks for the link as well.

emma_mcraf · 20-04-2016, 10:02 PM

She's perfect, Matt. It really is such a privilege to see a hatchling arrive into the world isn't it? Enjoy her; she's a real beauty.
I'll keep a lookout for the arrival of her sibling.

matt27 · 20-04-2016, 10:23 PM

I feel very blessed. The best thing about it for me. Is that I never went into tortoise keeping with the intention to breed. I just love them and the fact I've been able to have some little ones has just been a massive bonus.

Like many others I started with one and now have 6, with one more on the way. Exciting times!

10-04-2016, 07:25 PM	#1
matt27 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Leicester Posts: 37	Advice Please - Ref Article 10 Hi all, Does anybody have upto date info on the article 10 certificates. I have two tortoises that I bought, both with certificates and they have both been microchipped. With the numbers attached to the certificates. Firstly how do I go about getting the certificates updated with my name and address details on. As when I rang DEFRA, the person I spoke to didn't understand what I was talking about. Also I have 2 eggs in the incubator, which look to be fertile and hopefully will be hatching within the next 3 weeks or so. So I will then need to apply for some certificates for them. Once I have the certificates, if I decide to sell the hatchlings. Do I still give the certificate to the buyer, or just the number, as I have read that we have to send the certificates back. Also what is the new law with chipping Hermanns tortoises. Is it only for when they are sold and 60mm or longer. Thanks. __________________ Hermanns 1.4.0 ___________________ Information, Guides & Husbandry Techniques For Your Tortoise

11-04-2016, 12:51 PM	#5
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	I was under the impression that when they have the SSC that's it and that certificate stays with them, no matter how often they could be sold or rehomed. I'm not even sure if they'll change the name of the owner on the certificate or how much that'd cost. Regarding the hatchlings, if you sell them under 60mm you just give a copy of their certificates you'll get from Defra (you apply for their certs using their parents chip numbers), or as mentioned by Sandy you can give them away with no paperwork, but if they're larger than 60mm (which in my eyes is way too small to be chipped) they should be chipped and their new paperwork should display their chip number and thus would be a Specimen Specific Certificate (SSC) and would remain with them for their lives, needing to be passed on any time they're sold on, etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong anyone. It's a silly law to get your head around but that was my understanding of it. __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

20-04-2016, 08:09 PM	#6
matt27 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Leicester Posts: 37	Thanks for all the replys guys. Does anybody have a link for where I can download the application form. My first one hatched today and have decided to call her April. So excited now for the other one to hatch. __________________ Hermanns 1.4.0 ___________________ Information, Guides & Husbandry Techniques For Your Tortoise

20-04-2016, 08:49 PM	#7
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	Congratulations, Matt. We'd all love to see photos when you're able. Hopefully the second one will be along to join April soon. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...commercial-use __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

20-04-2016, 09:48 PM	#8
matt27 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Leicester Posts: 37	Thanks Emma. This is the 3rd clutch I've had from this particular female and the first lot of eggs that have been viable. It's been so exciting and was lovely to see a hatchling. Thanks for the link as well. __________________ Hermanns 1.4.0 ___________________ Information, Guides & Husbandry Techniques For Your Tortoise Last edited by matt27; 20-04-2016 at 09:50 PM.

11-04-2016, 07:41 AM	#2
Gordon Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 5,675	At the moment you don't need to do anything with the papers they will change them when you apply for the papers for the babies. As for giving over babies papers you can either give them the number or a photo copy and send the original back but not many people bother as they don't do anything with them as far as I understand.

20-04-2016, 10:02 PM	#9
emma_mcraf Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Devon Posts: 11,365	She's perfect, Matt. It really is such a privilege to see a hatchling arrive into the world isn't it? Enjoy her; she's a real beauty. I'll keep a lookout for the arrival of her sibling. __________________ Emma Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

20-04-2016, 10:23 PM	#10
matt27 Junior Member Egg Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Leicester Posts: 37	I feel very blessed. The best thing about it for me. Is that I never went into tortoise keeping with the intention to breed. I just love them and the fact I've been able to have some little ones has just been a massive bonus. Like many others I started with one and now have 6, with one more on the way. Exciting times! __________________ Hermanns 1.4.0 ___________________ Information, Guides & Husbandry Techniques For Your Tortoise

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