Horsfields Price - Page 2

cherylahutch · 16-12-2013, 10:59 AM

I think it must just be the area I live in but thankfully don't see a lot of this happening here. There is only 1 shop locally with a tortoise for sale and then you have to go to Newcastle or Carlisle for them even then there are not many. I think there should be some sort of restriction on selling them but then I suppose you would have to take in selling every animal not just tortoises because all animals need some special care and looking after.

Hanako · 16-12-2013, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NATURALIS

Ive seen them as low as £15 in europe , 90% of what you see for sale are wild caught.

That's quite a big assumption to make. If someone's tortoise had unexpectedly laid the eggs, the person perhaps just stuck them into incubator rather than destroy them, then suddenly the person has a few babies which he/she did not really want to, so they may want to sell them cheap (rather than give them completely free) to 'get rid' of them. I don't mean 'get rid of them' in any nasty way, but someone may suddenly have more tortoises than they can keep.

Fred123 · 16-12-2013, 09:39 PM

Hanako that would be a nice thought, but I doubt it very much. That would have to happen an awful lot for the numbers we are talking about. The majority will be wild caught as its an easy and inexpensive source.

Pussygalore · 17-12-2013, 07:40 AM

are Horsfields still wild caught? I thought most of the imports sold in shops/on line dealers were now farmed, you wouldn't catch and sell youngsters would you, adults yes but not hatchlings. I can imagine that the 'farms' might catch adults but doubt they catch enough babies to make up the numbers that are being sold, that would suggest that the babies kind of sit around in groups in the wild, knowing how small a hatchling is it would be near impossible to see them let alone catch them. Plus it wouldn't make sense to sell the adults as they'd be your breeding stock.

Suze65 · 17-12-2013, 09:18 AM

I think if you look on the tortoise protection group website, you'll find out about wild caught horsfields and importing tortoises, take a look at their YouTube link, it's very upsetting. That's why I think the import trade should be stopped.

NATURALIS · 17-12-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mediterraneansuze

I think if you look on the tortoise protection group website, you'll find out about wild caught horsfields and importing tortoises, take a look at their YouTube link, it's very upsetting. That's why I think the import trade should be stopped.

The tortoise you see in that you tube clip are collected for the meat market not for the pet trade.

Fred123 · 18-12-2013, 07:41 AM

If you look at most of the large scale illegal imports into the UK of wild caught tortoises they are either baby or juvenille tortoises. The TT dealt with leopard and hingeback tortoises all the leopards were baby and the hinges a mix.

They will be collected by locals over a period of time not found on mass. I guess its easier to sell lots at a smaller price than less at an increased price as adults would obviously take up more room but be worth more. Also many die in transit so a dead adult will reduce profits much more than a dead baby.

Pussygalore · 18-12-2013, 11:49 AM

but we're talking Horsfields not african torts, and there's been lots of threads about the european tort farms where they can breed on a very large scale, I still don't think it would be viable to go out searching for hatchling Horsfields when you can catch the adults and hatch the eggs. Whether caught or not I don't think that many of the hatchling/young Horsfield torts that come over here to be sold are wild caught, they may have come from wc adults but thats a different story. As to wc adults it would only pay to collect the eggs then release them there's a limit as to how many adults you can keep, there also must be a limit as to how many adults you can now find, My guess is that once a farm has enough breeding stock, females not males, then they wouldn't keep collecting them, it takes several years before a tort becomes fertile so logic says if you keep taking youngsters and selling them eventually there'd be no more adults in the wild.

Box girl · 18-12-2013, 04:40 PM

I think the reason that so many of these torts are cheap now is due to too many being around it's a supply and demand issue.

16-12-2013, 10:59 AM	#11
cherylahutch Senior Member Adult Join Date: May 2011 Location: Northumberland Posts: 2,170	I think it must just be the area I live in but thankfully don't see a lot of this happening here. There is only 1 shop locally with a tortoise for sale and then you have to go to Newcastle or Carlisle for them even then there are not many. I think there should be some sort of restriction on selling them but then I suppose you would have to take in selling every animal not just tortoises because all animals need some special care and looking after. __________________ Proud owner of Elvis, Padme, Bella,Ruby and Daisy the Horsfields, Mork and Mindi the Indian stars, Toby and Scarlett the Redfoots Yoshi and Cleopatra the Egyptians and Sam the Labrador. .

17-12-2013, 09:18 AM	#15
Suze65 Senior Member Adult Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,769	I think if you look on the tortoise protection group website, you'll find out about wild caught horsfields and importing tortoises, take a look at their YouTube link, it's very upsetting. That's why I think the import trade should be stopped. __________________ Suze. 3 THB, Sammy, Jemima, & Phoebe 7 Marginated, Tabitha, Ptolome, Tatiana, Noah,Lottey, Lulu & Poppy 1 TGG (Emma) RIP Feb 2012 Last edited by Suze65; 17-12-2013 at 09:26 AM.

18-12-2013, 07:41 AM	#17
Fred123 Member Hatched Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 407	If you look at most of the large scale illegal imports into the UK of wild caught tortoises they are either baby or juvenille tortoises. The TT dealt with leopard and hingeback tortoises all the leopards were baby and the hinges a mix. They will be collected by locals over a period of time not found on mass. I guess its easier to sell lots at a smaller price than less at an increased price as adults would obviously take up more room but be worth more. Also many die in transit so a dead adult will reduce profits much more than a dead baby. Last edited by Fred123; 18-12-2013 at 07:43 AM.

18-12-2013, 04:40 PM	#19
Box girl Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Glos Posts: 1,326	I think the reason that so many of these torts are cheap now is due to too many being around it's a supply and demand issue. __________________ www.ukchelonia.info Money raised to Allwetter Zoo Muenster e6000 sent so far. Have bred-red foots, yellow foots, eastern box, 3 toed box, ornate box, gulf coast box, common musk, elongated tortoise, red eared terrapin, cuora flavomarginata, cuora amboinensis, hermanns tortoise, horsfield tortoise, rhinoclemys.p. manni, european pond turtle, reeves and spurs

16-12-2013, 09:39 PM	#13
Fred123 Member Hatched Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 407	Hanako that would be a nice thought, but I doubt it very much. That would have to happen an awful lot for the numbers we are talking about. The majority will be wild caught as its an easy and inexpensive source.

17-12-2013, 07:40 AM	#14
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	are Horsfields still wild caught? I thought most of the imports sold in shops/on line dealers were now farmed, you wouldn't catch and sell youngsters would you, adults yes but not hatchlings. I can imagine that the 'farms' might catch adults but doubt they catch enough babies to make up the numbers that are being sold, that would suggest that the babies kind of sit around in groups in the wild, knowing how small a hatchling is it would be near impossible to see them let alone catch them. Plus it wouldn't make sense to sell the adults as they'd be your breeding stock.

18-12-2013, 11:49 AM	#18
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	but we're talking Horsfields not african torts, and there's been lots of threads about the european tort farms where they can breed on a very large scale, I still don't think it would be viable to go out searching for hatchling Horsfields when you can catch the adults and hatch the eggs. Whether caught or not I don't think that many of the hatchling/young Horsfield torts that come over here to be sold are wild caught, they may have come from wc adults but thats a different story. As to wc adults it would only pay to collect the eggs then release them there's a limit as to how many adults you can keep, there also must be a limit as to how many adults you can now find, My guess is that once a farm has enough breeding stock, females not males, then they wouldn't keep collecting them, it takes several years before a tort becomes fertile so logic says if you keep taking youngsters and selling them eventually there'd be no more adults in the wild.

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