Is it wrong to keep TGG with TGI? - Page 5

Pussygalore · 10-10-2007, 11:07 AM

Iv'e only kept tortoises for a couple of years and very luckily brought my 2 hermans from a breeder who turned out to be a good member on here although I didn't know it at the time he gave me all the right advice from the start, so I was using the TT methods without even realizing it, needless to say everything has worked brilliantly for me my torts have never been sick and have I think made the right weight gains and seem happy and content, so my later additions also I think benefited from what I had learned and are now I think happier and healthier than when they first came to me, I am always pushing people towards this site and its policys, I'm always surprised at how badley others have been advised and hope that if only a few torts have healthier, happier lives through what we do on here then thats a job well done, most of it is just common sense and thinking how those animals would live out their natural lives which I think applies to all the animals we keep.

piglet · 10-10-2007, 01:59 PM

Well I have had my say and could go on all day about this subject, but life's too short to get stressed over the politics derived from subjects such as this.
Me and Sarah do agree with many husbandry guidelines set down by the TT but we didn't start this forum to promote the TT they do that them selves but we are happy to promote the TT when we feel is necassary and also are own experiences in tortoise husbandry.
We started this forum as we where banned from another forum that was once as equally popular as this , unfortunately that site died a death due to politics(its actually becoming quite popular again though I hear) which both myself and Sarah got involved in something we really didn't want to happen on here but sounds like its starting again here to, so maybe this is the end of SW if the rumours are true about everyone leaving , anyway no matter how we try to be as reasoning and acceptable of all posts that are added to the lists we still acn't get it right so how about starting your own lists ths way you can all see how friggin hard it is
So too all people who are leaving as they feel they can't post without attack from members with controversial advise is go join the TT list or I can suggest is instead of allowing yourselves to get overheated on matters you disagree with is stress your point once its stressed people can decide which they wish to follow and as the majority sing from the same book I would imagine they will follow the majority.

Helen Tgt golden greeks are not often seen in the UK they are delicate tortoises and do often fall victim to incorrect husbandry i.e mixing spieces , do you ahve any pictures of this animal

D

Pussygalore · 10-10-2007, 02:37 PM

I'm not sure if the last post by piglet was aimed at me or not but one thing I will say is that if this site is now changing its mind about not keeping different species together and trying to promote a good diet and no vivs then its not the site for me anymore, I was trying to back the site not discredit it, everything I have learnt has come from here and although I have had differences of opiniums with people they have never been over the basic good care and husbandry for tort s that this site taught me, call me whatever but I see no place on here for people that promote the mixing of species or the use of vivs if we don't stick to our aims and principles whether they are different from others or not then there isn't any point in what we are trying to do, we can argue all day over other issues but not the basics that I thought we as members all believed in and practised. it would not be the death of this site if those who don't agree and keep their animals in other ways joined more suitable sites as I'm sure there are enough of us who are trying what we believe is the right way to care for our torts.

Jason1 · 10-10-2007, 02:38 PM

This group is by far the best tortoise group on the net. I enjoy a good discusion but I think an exchange of views is all that is neccessary. I dont understand why post cant just have firstly the question and then peoples own opinions backed up with references to articles, books etc if appropriate. by all means make the point that you dont agree with a member but try to be slightly construction and offer an alternative view. In 50 years time ed and people who keep there torts as he does might have lost all there tortoises at an earlier age than those who follow the TT's advice or vice versa. then maybe we can say this way is right and this way is wrong because they live for longer when kept this way. Until then try to accept other methods and of course criticize if you can put a good point across. I should be 73 by then but maybe both types of husnbandry will be equally successful.

I've kind of come away from the point of mixing somewhat here. Firstly let me say that stress lowers the capability of the immune system to fight of infection. My view is if mixing the tortoise causes stress then your bound to end up with disease, after all (I think i am right but disagree if you wish) the main cause of RNS is stress something antibiotics can do nothing about. Obviously in cases were mixing is sucessfull the tortoises haven't become stressed and therefore have lived together for many a year without any problems. How else can you explain why some have mixed X and Y and had no problems and others have mixed X and Y and lost either X or Y. Personally its a risk I wouldn't take but on the other hand if I rehomed a group of mixed torts that had been mixed for years I wouldn't seperate them.

Jason

Henry-flash · 10-10-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

I'm not sure if the last post by piglet was aimed at me or not but one thing I will say is that if this site is now changing its mind about not keeping different species together and trying to promote a good diet and no vivs then its not the site for me anymore, I was trying to back the site not discredit it.

When did anyone say this site was changing towards vivs, mixing and pellets? People simply have differing opinions.
This is a forum, heres the definition of a forum:

1. A public meeting place for open discussion.
2. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.

OPEN DISCUSSION seems to be a key thing here and thats all that goes on here at SW. Yes, the majority of us go with 'TT ideas' or something very close to that and others go to the opposite extreme. As a forum you will never get everyone to agree, you cannot simply ban someone for disagreeing. If you would rather everyone gave the exact same advice then simple don't have a forum you have a static website just with information on. I personally prefer the forum option.

Sarah and Darren (along with a few others

) have put vast amounts of work and effort into this site and they continue to do so everyday. I would hate to see the forum brought down by all these squabbles, which aren't neccessary. I thought we all agreed an end to them a few weeks ago?

While I'm here I have to say I would love to know why people keep saying lots of members have left, I can think of just one or two, but every forum has natural loss such as that.

Hope I'm not completly out of order here.

sandy · 10-10-2007, 04:04 PM

Pussygalore, I think you will find its the minority that think mixing speices, feeding pellets are
good tort husbandry.
The majority still think the opposite, members are entitled to their own opinions even if they
are wrong<vbg> (ducking waiting for the bullets to fly) in my opinion.
But as I have said many a time, once you have the info, its your choice and you pay the
consequences of it right or wrong.

chris_walton · 10-10-2007, 04:20 PM

IN MY OPINION MIXING SPECIES IS WRONG AND I WOULD NOT ADVISE IT

Tamie Milne · 10-10-2007, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris_walton

IN MY OPINION MIXING SPECIES IS WRONG AND I WOULD NOT ADVISE IT

Sorry Chris, did not quite get the message ... how do you feel about mixing??

Tamie <ducks>

chris_walton · 10-10-2007, 04:31 PM

you know what its like when you just want to be heard

to me mixing species is just as bad as keeing a vulture and a budgie in the same cage you just wouldnt do it, just becuase they are both tortoises to me its no exception, so why do it. obviously there are people in the world that do it but i personally wouldnt

so to answer killerthetorts question try and find another reputable breeder who you can be sure of. and if you want a different species of tort just build another enclosure and go from there

wildlifewarrior · 10-10-2007, 04:36 PM

Henry-flash is right about each to there own thing...just have to agree to disagree. you u all not forgive and forget

10-10-2007, 04:04 PM	#46
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Pussygalore, I think you will find its the minority that think mixing speices, feeding pellets are good tort husbandry. The majority still think the opposite, members are entitled to their own opinions even if they are wrong<vbg> (ducking waiting for the bullets to fly) in my opinion. But as I have said many a time, once you have the info, its your choice and you pay the consequences of it right or wrong. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

10-10-2007, 04:20 PM	#47
chris_walton Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: chester Posts: 1,329	IN MY OPINION MIXING SPECIES IS WRONG AND I WOULD NOT ADVISE IT __________________

10-10-2007, 04:31 PM	#49
chris_walton Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: chester Posts: 1,329	you know what its like when you just want to be heard to me mixing species is just as bad as keeing a vulture and a budgie in the same cage you just wouldnt do it, just becuase they are both tortoises to me its no exception, so why do it. obviously there are people in the world that do it but i personally wouldnt so to answer killerthetorts question try and find another reputable breeder who you can be sure of. and if you want a different species of tort just build another enclosure and go from there __________________

10-10-2007, 11:07 AM	#41
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	Iv'e only kept tortoises for a couple of years and very luckily brought my 2 hermans from a breeder who turned out to be a good member on here although I didn't know it at the time he gave me all the right advice from the start, so I was using the TT methods without even realizing it, needless to say everything has worked brilliantly for me my torts have never been sick and have I think made the right weight gains and seem happy and content, so my later additions also I think benefited from what I had learned and are now I think happier and healthier than when they first came to me, I am always pushing people towards this site and its policys, I'm always surprised at how badley others have been advised and hope that if only a few torts have healthier, happier lives through what we do on here then thats a job well done, most of it is just common sense and thinking how those animals would live out their natural lives which I think applies to all the animals we keep.

10-10-2007, 01:59 PM	#42
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Well I have had my say and could go on all day about this subject, but life's too short to get stressed over the politics derived from subjects such as this. Me and Sarah do agree with many husbandry guidelines set down by the TT but we didn't start this forum to promote the TT they do that them selves but we are happy to promote the TT when we feel is necassary and also are own experiences in tortoise husbandry. We started this forum as we where banned from another forum that was once as equally popular as this , unfortunately that site died a death due to politics(its actually becoming quite popular again though I hear) which both myself and Sarah got involved in something we really didn't want to happen on here but sounds like its starting again here to, so maybe this is the end of SW if the rumours are true about everyone leaving , anyway no matter how we try to be as reasoning and acceptable of all posts that are added to the lists we still acn't get it right so how about starting your own lists ths way you can all see how friggin hard it is So too all people who are leaving as they feel they can't post without attack from members with controversial advise is go join the TT list or I can suggest is instead of allowing yourselves to get overheated on matters you disagree with is stress your point once its stressed people can decide which they wish to follow and as the majority sing from the same book I would imagine they will follow the majority. Helen Tgt golden greeks are not often seen in the UK they are delicate tortoises and do often fall victim to incorrect husbandry i.e mixing spieces , do you ahve any pictures of this animal D

10-10-2007, 02:37 PM	#43
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	I'm not sure if the last post by piglet was aimed at me or not but one thing I will say is that if this site is now changing its mind about not keeping different species together and trying to promote a good diet and no vivs then its not the site for me anymore, I was trying to back the site not discredit it, everything I have learnt has come from here and although I have had differences of opiniums with people they have never been over the basic good care and husbandry for tort s that this site taught me, call me whatever but I see no place on here for people that promote the mixing of species or the use of vivs if we don't stick to our aims and principles whether they are different from others or not then there isn't any point in what we are trying to do, we can argue all day over other issues but not the basics that I thought we as members all believed in and practised. it would not be the death of this site if those who don't agree and keep their animals in other ways joined more suitable sites as I'm sure there are enough of us who are trying what we believe is the right way to care for our torts.

10-10-2007, 02:38 PM	#44
Jason1 Member Hatched Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Lancashire Posts: 405	This group is by far the best tortoise group on the net. I enjoy a good discusion but I think an exchange of views is all that is neccessary. I dont understand why post cant just have firstly the question and then peoples own opinions backed up with references to articles, books etc if appropriate. by all means make the point that you dont agree with a member but try to be slightly construction and offer an alternative view. In 50 years time ed and people who keep there torts as he does might have lost all there tortoises at an earlier age than those who follow the TT's advice or vice versa. then maybe we can say this way is right and this way is wrong because they live for longer when kept this way. Until then try to accept other methods and of course criticize if you can put a good point across. I should be 73 by then but maybe both types of husnbandry will be equally successful. I've kind of come away from the point of mixing somewhat here. Firstly let me say that stress lowers the capability of the immune system to fight of infection. My view is if mixing the tortoise causes stress then your bound to end up with disease, after all (I think i am right but disagree if you wish) the main cause of RNS is stress something antibiotics can do nothing about. Obviously in cases were mixing is sucessfull the tortoises haven't become stressed and therefore have lived together for many a year without any problems. How else can you explain why some have mixed X and Y and had no problems and others have mixed X and Y and lost either X or Y. Personally its a risk I wouldn't take but on the other hand if I rehomed a group of mixed torts that had been mixed for years I wouldn't seperate them. Jason

10-10-2007, 04:36 PM	#50
wildlifewarrior Banned Adult Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: stokie for life Posts: 4,272	Henry-flash is right about each to there own thing...just have to agree to disagree. you u all not forgive and forget

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