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Old 16-08-2015, 07:50 PM   #1
Kjoyce
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Default Hermann underweight but pyramiding.

Hi,
I will attach pictures when I've worked out how.

I have a year old Hermann tortoise. He began pyramiding so I was informed I was probably over feeding and have begun to feed less.
Out of curiosity I weighed and measured him today and found he is actually underweight using the Jacksons Ratio (80mm carapace and weight of 87g).

Obviously, if he's underweight I need to up food and this can't be what is causing him to pyramid, so what is?

He (I say he, unsure of gender) is active and spends his days charging round his table.
Feeds on crispy salad, homegrown weeds and occasional flower petals. Tried to get him eating fried flower and dandelion mix but he won't.
Food is dusted with calcidust and nutrobal on alternate days.
Has a combined heat/UVB lamp which is less than 3 months old.
Substrate - coco coir spot cleaned and changed every 2 to 3 weeks.
Heat - 35c in hot side, 25c in cool.
Water bowl provided as well as baths every other day.
He goes to the toilet usually once a day just after eating. Climbs in his water bowl when he wants to wee.

Should I up his food? How do I stop him pyramiding if it isn't from over feeding?
Worried about my little guy

Thanks
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Old 16-08-2015, 07:55 PM   #2
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Old 16-08-2015, 08:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjoyce View Post
Hi,
I will attach pictures when I've worked out how.

I have a year old Hermann tortoise. He began pyramiding so I was informed I was probably over feeding and have begun to feed less.
Out of curiosity I weighed and measured him today and found he is actually underweight using the Jacksons Ratio (80mm carapace and weight of 87g).

Obviously, if he's underweight I need to up food and this can't be what is causing him to pyramid, so what is?

He (I say he, unsure of gender) is active and spends his days charging round his table.
Feeds on crispy salad, homegrown weeds and occasional flower petals. Tried to get him eating fried flower and dandelion mix but he won't.
Food is dusted with calcidust and nutrobal on alternate days.
Has a combined heat/UVB lamp which is less than 3 months old.
Substrate - coco coir spot cleaned and changed every 2 to 3 weeks.
Heat - 35c in hot side, 25c in cool.
Water bowl provided as well as baths every other day.
He goes to the toilet usually once a day just after eating. Climbs in his water bowl when he wants to wee.

Should I up his food? How do I stop him pyramiding if it isn't from over feeding?
Worried about my little guy

Thanks

35c is far too hot for inside. The temps need to be more like 32c under the heat sorce. He also should be outside as much as possible, grazing weeds and flower naturally:0)
Pyramiding is caused by husbandry in general, too much protein foods, too much food, humidity.
If your tortoise is acting as a tortoise should, then dont worry about the weight. The JR is only a guide for hibernation, not for general weight gains and losses. Just like us they can and do vary.
I would say 87grms for a year old is fine, far better to be slightly under than over:0)
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Old 16-08-2015, 08:59 PM   #4
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I don't hold with the theory that over feeding causes pyramiding. I feed my torts as much as they want and they have good shells. Under feeding and having an underweight tort is not good for him.
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Old 16-08-2015, 09:57 PM   #5
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I'll be honest that I'm struggling to see pyramiding from your photo. If there is pyramiding it's very slight. I'd say your husbandry is pretty good. The temperature gradients should be reduced slightly by raising your bulb a little and perhaps adding a humid hide would be beneficial. As Wendy says, I don't withhold food either. Mine have their breakfast each morning and then graze as they like in their outside enclosures.
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Old 16-08-2015, 10:15 PM   #6
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Not sure who told you its pyramiding but I think they need to go to specksavers.
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Old 16-08-2015, 10:26 PM   #7
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Oh right, I'll raise his lamp a little tomorrow

How would I go about making him a humid hide?

I showed a picture of him to a friend who used to keep tortoises and it was them that told me he way pyramiding, glad to hear it's not as bad as I thought.

I live in the north of England so not always warm enough to have him outside if previous advice was correct. Am I right that is should be above 20c to put him in his outdoor run? He's been out a few times but he likes to dig so I'm always nervous haha!

I'll carry on feeding him as I am and checking his weight.
Thanks for all the advice
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Old 17-08-2015, 08:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjoyce View Post
Oh right, I'll raise his lamp a little tomorrow

How would I go about making him a humid hide?

I showed a picture of him to a friend who used to keep tortoises and it was them that told me he way pyramiding, glad to hear it's not as bad as I thought.

I live in the north of England so not always warm enough to have him outside if previous advice was correct. Am I right that is should be above 20c to put him in his outdoor run? He's been out a few times but he likes to dig so I'm always nervous haha!

I'll carry on feeding him as I am and checking his weight.
Thanks for all the advice

My ibera go outside at much lower temps, they are kept exactly the same as hermans. As long as they are warmed up they can go out when its warm and sunny. I let my tortoises choose where they want to be.
My smaller ones live outside 24/7 from May until the end of September. And we have mixed temps during this time. I do live in the SE, but its not always hot and warm here.
If its too cold they just wont come out, so need to be inside up North. Bright light is what wakes them, the sun gets them moving:0)

If you weigh your tortoise once a month, you can get a better idea of weight gain. Generally 2-3grms a month is the norm.
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Old 17-08-2015, 09:05 AM   #9
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I will follow opinions that there is no pyramiding. You tort has a nice smooth growth. Congrats, good job
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Old 17-08-2015, 01:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjoyce View Post
Oh right, I'll raise his lamp a little tomorrow

How would I go about making him a humid hide?

I showed a picture of him to a friend who used to keep tortoises and it was them that told me he way pyramiding, glad to hear it's not as bad as I thought.

I live in the north of England so not always warm enough to have him outside if previous advice was correct. Am I right that is should be above 20c to put him in his outdoor run? He's been out a few times but he likes to dig so I'm always nervous haha!

I'll carry on feeding him as I am and checking his weight.
Thanks for all the advice
For my humid hides I literally have habba huts or log hides near the basking spot and I keep the soil damp (but not wet) underneath. The heat from the lamp helps to raise the humidity. In the past I've made them out of large margarine tubs and had a sponge stuck to the roof, which I would soak and then squeeze out. Others on here have made them using washing up bowls, plastic tubs, etc. Have a look through threads on humid hides to give you some inspiration.
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Testudo Hermanni 5.12.2:Theo, Tamara, Tabitha, Harriet, Isabelle, Clara, Oscar, Hugo, Oliver, Florence, Arabella, Esmé, Aurelia, Felicia, Claudia, Atticus, Celestia, Amaris, Tristan and Clementine
Budgies: Jasper, Ivo, Otis, Henry, Louie and Luca
Doggies: 1.1.0 Chester and Lottie

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