Surely that's not right?!!

Gaelle · 21-09-2009, 09:53 PM

I've just found this picture on the net and couldn't help feeling shocked. I know nothing about non-med tortoise species, but that really looks like severe pyramiding??? Or is that something Indian Star occasionally look like????

http://www.flickr.com/photos/shoveller/3680687830/

If not, I'm amazed the poor thing is still alive...

boost-boy74 · 21-09-2009, 10:04 PM

dont worry, they do grow that way - its natural for this species

Star · 21-09-2009, 10:35 PM

Wow, I can see why you thought that might not be a natural occurrence.

**egyptiandan64** · 21-09-2009, 10:42 PM

Thats actually not normal and most Indian Stars do grow smooth in the wild. It's just very hard in captivity to grow a Star tortoise really smooth.
Though if you look at Twinkle, thats how they are supposed to look.

Danny

Star · 21-09-2009, 10:46 PM

Its the worst case of pyramiding I think I have ever seen on a Star.

Danny, would that type of pyramiding affect the tortoises health and life span?

**egyptiandan64** · 21-09-2009, 10:57 PM

With still being domed it shouldn't affect the tortoises health very much, as long as the diet was fixed from what got it that way in the first place.
Not sure about the long term affects that might shorten the life span of the tortoise. As no one has really kept CB pyramided Stars for very long yet.

Danny

Star · 21-09-2009, 11:09 PM

I would definitely be interested to find out the long term effects.......... It might not make sense, but the way I view it is......... as with us, if we experience bone deformities, such as a hunched back, it then causes additional strains and effects other parts of the body as a result of the deformity.....I am sure the same could be said here......?

There maybe lots of literature on it, but I haven't found any with substance as yet.....I would think that the pyramiding would weigh more, and this star looks as if the additional weight on its back is greatly increased and would thus place additional strains on the tortoises health?

Also, what internal damage, if any, would be caused.....from some of the images I have viewed with pyramiding, the internal design of the shell still looks as similar to a smooth tortoise, but with some larger spacings between the structure.......? Sorry if I am waffling, just fascinated and intrigued to learn more about pyramiding and the effects

**egyptiandan64** · 22-09-2009, 12:02 AM

Actually it probably weighs the same as a none pyramided tortoise, as the pyramided tortoise's bones are more porus and thicker (so most likely have the same weight)
Here are some pictures.

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=18782

Danny

Star · 22-09-2009, 01:08 AM

Thanks Danny, I think I have read that thread some time back.....it’s absolutely fascinating

Have two tortoise shells ever been weighed, of the same size but one with pyramiding?

If the scutes are spaced wider apart with the tortoises that have pyramiding, then do they not have a weaker bone structure which in response will cause additional health issues, for example: “Bone is a connective tissue which contains a hardened template of mineral salts along with collagen fibres. Besides giving shape and structure to the body, bone stores a variety of mineral salts and aids information of blood cells under an external periosteum layer”. If all this is evident in humans, is it not also evident in the tortoise’s bones?

I guess what I am asking, is; if the bone structure of the tortoise is pyramided, has damage not already been done to the structure and fibres within the tortoises body.....if the bone stores additional minerals and has relevance to the functions of the blood cells, then has the pyramiding not effected the natural processes? And as a result, altered the internal development in some way?

Freshy · 22-09-2009, 07:34 AM

I read that female star tend to grow a little bit more pyramid than male star..
from what I see, that picture looks quite serious even for a female.

anyway, the eyelid looks quite swollen?

21-09-2009, 09:53 PM	#1
Gaelle Member Incubating Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Wolverhampton Posts: 185	Surely that's not right?!! I've just found this picture on the net and couldn't help feeling shocked. I know nothing about non-med tortoise species, but that really looks like severe pyramiding??? Or is that something Indian Star occasionally look like???? http://www.flickr.com/photos/shoveller/3680687830/ If not, I'm amazed the poor thing is still alive...

21-09-2009, 10:04 PM	#2
boost-boy74 Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Norfolk Posts: 112	dont worry, they do grow that way - its natural for this species __________________ 1.1.0 lepoards 0.0.4 spur thigh 1.1.0 redfooted 0.0.3 sulcata 1.1.0 bosc monitor lizard 4.8.x leos 0.0.1 corn snake - 0.0.1 royal python coming soon

21-09-2009, 10:35 PM	#3
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	Wow, I can see why you thought that might not be a natural occurrence. __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

21-09-2009, 10:42 PM	#4
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Thats actually not normal and most Indian Stars do grow smooth in the wild. It's just very hard in captivity to grow a Star tortoise really smooth. Though if you look at Twinkle, thats how they are supposed to look. Danny __________________

21-09-2009, 10:46 PM	#5
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	Its the worst case of pyramiding I think I have ever seen on a Star. Danny, would that type of pyramiding affect the tortoises health and life span? __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

21-09-2009, 10:57 PM	#6
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	With still being domed it shouldn't affect the tortoises health very much, as long as the diet was fixed from what got it that way in the first place. Not sure about the long term affects that might shorten the life span of the tortoise. As no one has really kept CB pyramided Stars for very long yet. Danny __________________

21-09-2009, 11:09 PM	#7
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	I would definitely be interested to find out the long term effects.......... It might not make sense, but the way I view it is......... as with us, if we experience bone deformities, such as a hunched back, it then causes additional strains and effects other parts of the body as a result of the deformity.....I am sure the same could be said here......? There maybe lots of literature on it, but I haven't found any with substance as yet.....I would think that the pyramiding would weigh more, and this star looks as if the additional weight on its back is greatly increased and would thus place additional strains on the tortoises health? Also, what internal damage, if any, would be caused.....from some of the images I have viewed with pyramiding, the internal design of the shell still looks as similar to a smooth tortoise, but with some larger spacings between the structure.......? Sorry if I am waffling, just fascinated and intrigued to learn more about pyramiding and the effects __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

22-09-2009, 12:02 AM	#8
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Actually it probably weighs the same as a none pyramided tortoise, as the pyramided tortoise's bones are more porus and thicker (so most likely have the same weight) Here are some pictures. http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=18782 Danny __________________

22-09-2009, 01:08 AM	#9
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	Thanks Danny, I think I have read that thread some time back.....it’s absolutely fascinating Have two tortoise shells ever been weighed, of the same size but one with pyramiding? If the scutes are spaced wider apart with the tortoises that have pyramiding, then do they not have a weaker bone structure which in response will cause additional health issues, for example: “Bone is a connective tissue which contains a hardened template of mineral salts along with collagen fibres. Besides giving shape and structure to the body, bone stores a variety of mineral salts and aids information of blood cells under an external periosteum layer”. If all this is evident in humans, is it not also evident in the tortoise’s bones? I guess what I am asking, is; if the bone structure of the tortoise is pyramided, has damage not already been done to the structure and fibres within the tortoises body.....if the bone stores additional minerals and has relevance to the functions of the blood cells, then has the pyramiding not effected the natural processes? And as a result, altered the internal development in some way? __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

22-09-2009, 07:34 AM	#10
Freshy Junior Member Egg Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 23	I read that female star tend to grow a little bit more pyramid than male star.. from what I see, that picture looks quite serious even for a female. anyway, the eyelid looks quite swollen?

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