Sub Species and Temp

[Fallen Angel]

Thanks Ade thats the word thats been bugging me since i posted lol pathogens cheers Ade

Nicky

[nick owen]

This also ensures the tortoises remain pure in their type, some hybrids do appear form time to time through ignorant husbandry but really these animals should not be allowed to reproduce, but if they do, any further subsequent eggs should not be incubated from hybrid or mixed species torts.

Sorry if this is an ignorant question, as I say, haven't much experience. But, whats wrong with having mixed species tort babies and why shouldn't they be allowed to reproduce? Whats wrong about it?

Also, I know they can live happily alone, and they pretty much live alone in the wild apart from when breeding, but they seem to have grown a custom to each other now, thats all.

Thanks again, Nick.

[Eire_Ade]

Originally Posted by Eire_Ade

Hi Nick, you should never mix species and subspecies of the same together, each tortoise carry different pathogens which can be passed on by contact.

This also ensures the tortoises remain pure in their type

There may also be damage sustanied as a result of mixing two different species as some have softer shells than others and some are more aggressive than others too, just to mention another problem associated with mixing.

I have extraced the bits which answer your question from my original post about this and highlighted them in colour.

Ade

nick

ade has answered your questions very well

please take this advice

and then you will have long lived healthy torts

[nick owen]

Sorry, its just that I get conflicting advice from different sources! Although everyone is trying to help of course. I've also been told that if captive bread, the torts would be pretty much 'clean' anyway and so it wouldn't matter about pathogens in sub species.
I've now also been told that one of my torts isn't of this sub species anyway so it solves the problem....

This tortoise keeping has its frustrating times....I wish there was one book with the official and correct information that wasn't open to interpretation....lol...

Thanks for all your help anyway,

Nick.

[nick owen]

http://usera.imagecave.com/nickowen/MillyandMikey/

Here are my babies anyway, finally got some pics sorted. And don't worry, they're no longer in the wood chippings - I've put them into a sand/soil mix now.

Nick.

[Eire_Ade]

Hi Nick, its not the fact that the captive bred tortoises are clean so to speak which makes the difference housing different species of tortoises together thats the problem.

Pathogens are nothing to do with whether or not a tortoise is wild caught or captive bred, it is something that individual species has evolved with, and this evolution has been quaratined from cross contamination by the locality of each species within the world, in essence these tortoises do not meet in the wild, they are all specific to their own area / location.

You say now that they are the same sub species of hermans which looking at the plastron and carapace pictures I myself think they are different, but I am still learning myself.

You are right there is a lot of conflicting info out there, and books are even worse than the info you would get from experienced tortoise keepers here.

If I was you I would be e-mailing these pictues to Andy Highfield at the Tortoise Trust for identification. He will definately give you an accurate identification of your tortoises sub species.

Ade

[nick owen]

Thanks Ade,
When I first joined somebody emailed them too him and I am waiting on a response.

Nick

[Eire_Ade]

I know Andy Highfield is a very busy man, maybe it might be worth e-mailing him again, have you also put them into the id section here?

Egyptian Dan, Piglet, Sandy, Herman Chris, and many others may well be able to answer the question for you.

Ade

PS have you looked and compared yours to the sticky thread about identifying the different species of hermans?

[nick owen]

I'm going to be honest and say I struggle to do the identifying myself...just don't have the experience I supose. I've been chatting alittle with Hermann Chris whos been a great help so far. Didn't know about the id section to be honest, will take a look.

Nick.