Pebble and the vet

ethelandedna · 11-03-2011, 07:25 PM

Well - confused dot com is back again. This evening we went and met Pebble's potential new vet. She is the reptile expert at the practice and she seemed to know her onions, but one or two things she told me totally contradicted everything I've heard on SW and read on other sites about Med torts/Hermanns.

I'll list the points she made that perplexed me then sit back and wait for the fallout, I mean your responses.

1. She did not agree with any substrate in the enclosure other than newspaper or turf(!). Paper and other pelleted types are no-no. Topsoil, Tortoise Life and the like all harbour germs and are too dirty. Apparently Hermanns aren't a burrowing breed so they don't need a substrate to dig into.

2. My guinea pig cage set up is OK but a wooden tort table would be better. Plastics combined with the heat/light lamps are not a good thing. I did explain our cat situation but... a wooden table would be better long term.

3. The hay he sleeps in has got to go (which I knew). In it's place she said to put a hide - not wood as that can harbour germs and nasties - a plastic one or a cardboard box, and fill it with Comfort Zone. This is a biodegradable, cottonwool-like nesting material used for hamsters and gerbils. Her maxim is anything in the tort's enclosure should be either disinfectable or disposable.

4. Only bath him once a day as twice will make him get too cold.

On the plus side she said he seems a healthy little chap and he's developing well. She checked him all over - eyes, nose, mouth, limbs, etc. One of his nares was a bit blocked but she cleaned that up.

Poor Pebble (and vet lady has confirmed he is a 'he') has now had his hay nest confiscated and a pile of cotton wool put in its place. He is currently sulking in his log tunnel.

I can't remember any more that she said as it was all rather intense. Most of it seemed OK and matched what I'd read elsewhere. She obviously sees other torts. They had had a Leopard in earlier that day and while we were there another lady was buying worming treatment for a tort. Obviosuly the bits that stuck in my mind were the bits that seemed at odds with what I'd read here on SW.
So what does anyone think?

Helen M · 11-03-2011, 07:58 PM

Hmmm it would see that there are no germs in the wild at all according to this vet. If I were you I would make my own informed choice. If these were really inherent dangers you would find plenty of threads on here saying so.

Helen xx

ethelandedna · 11-03-2011, 08:07 PM

Hmm... Kind of what I was thinking. In the wild torts sleep in hygenically clean plastic boxes full of cotton wool. They don't dig scrapes in the earth and get at all mucky.

I so want her to be a good tort vet as she's pretty local. Having said that I suppose if we look after Pebble well we won't need to visit her that often.

It's just so hard, when you don't what's right and wrong yourself, to think the last person you spoke to is correct.

ClareandCo · 11-03-2011, 08:17 PM

Thought provoking reading.

When we rehomed ours we were told by a very experienced keeper - they are not on here or any other forum that I know - that newspaper was the best substrate. We use Homebase topsoil.

One of ours was housed in a guinea pig indoor cage, but spent all the time trying to climb up the sides so is now in an open top "table". The lights were a concern as they did seem to shine onto the plastic and I did wonder if it would get too hot.

We were also told one bath or possibly two a year would be sufficient (please note though this is for an 80+ TGG).

Be interesting to see what others have to say.

Aliza · 11-03-2011, 08:20 PM

I am very sorry but I think you have been misinformed. Tortoises clearly love digging or they wouldn't do it. There is dirt in the wild which has dirt in it. In the desert everything is not disifected within an inch of their life. My torties are in a guinea pig table and they do fine, they are just as good as tortoise tables. Bathing him twice probably wont make her cold.
Just try to do your research and consider how they would live in the wild. Im sure you will know what to do

ethelandedna · 11-03-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClareandCo

Thought provoking reading.

One of ours was housed in a guinea pig indoor cage, but spent all the time trying to climb up the sides so is now in an open top "table". The lights were a concern as they did seem to shine onto the plastic and I did wonder if it would get too hot.

Be interesting to see what others have to say.

Pebble liked climbing the corners by his basking lamp in his first few days but doesn't do it now.

I agree. The comments I've received so far have confirmed what I thought. Be interested to see others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aliza

I am very sorry but I think you have been misinformed. Tortoises clearly love digging or they wouldn't do it. There is dirt in the wild which has dirt in it. In the desert everything is not disifected within an inch of their life. My torties are in a guinea pig table and they do fine, they are just as good as tortoise tables. Bathing him twice probably wont make her cold.
Just try to do your research and consider how they would live in the wild. Im sure you will know what to do

Yeah. I think the 'clean-freak' thing can go a bit too far. Of course I will keep his enclosure clean and keep him as healthy as possible. Apart from anything he was quite a hefty financial investment so I'm going to do everything possible to ensure he stays fit and well.

But I have also grown to love the little chap. I only want to do what's best for him but when he gets out into the garden, I won't be disinfecting the lawn.

**16 shells** · 11-03-2011, 08:29 PM

Glad you got the all fine from the vet. What is used in a tort's habitat should be cleaned anyway, some do it once a month if using soil ect. The table giving a good once over with a sutable disinfectant or plain old hot water with a bit of washing up detergent.
The great outdoor a lot is naturaly bio degradeable with the weather, but i can't remember the last time i scrubbed the wood in the outdoor enclosure, maybe never.

All bedding's like hay type need refreshing before it has chance to start to decompose, also anything put in give a thought if tort's may eat it and could it cause impaction of the gut.

**Alan1** · 11-03-2011, 08:33 PM

the trouble with a lot of vets is that they are a bit like a GP (*not my GP who is about as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike), they have a general knowledge about stuff rather than a specialised knowledge about anything in particular.

1. Newspaper is sometimes used after worming treatment has been given but not for permanent use. The topsoil you buy is sterilised but in the wild it isn't

and they can't nip into their local newsagent for old copies of the daily mail to spread over southern france

.

the non burrowing hermann..

4. they should be bathed in warm (but not hot) water

**Alan1** · 11-03-2011, 08:44 PM

You should have said, will the paper I cover my garden with not get all soggy when it rains

regarding the turf, I wonder if she meant artificial stuff, reptile carpet or something. I know some folks do use that and paper as well but it's more fore the benefit of the keeper than the tort. ease of cleaning out. real turf is continually damp even when it seems dry

ethelandedna · 11-03-2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 16 shells

All bedding's like hay type need refreshing before it has chance to start to decompose, also anything put in give a thought if tort's may eat it and could it cause impaction of the gut.

This was my worry with the cotton wool stuff. Is he likely to eat it? I just knew I shouldn't have bought it. Grrrr!

Quote:

Originally Posted by caledonia

the trouble with a lot of vets is that they are a bit like a GP (*not my GP who is about as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike), they have a general knowledge about stuff rather than a specialised knowledge about anything in particular.

1. Newspaper is sometimes used after worming treatment has been given but not for permanent use. The topsoil you buy is sterilised but in the wild it isn't

and they can't nip into their local newsagent for old copies of the daily mail to spread over southern france

.

the non burrowing hermann..

4. they should be bathed in warm (but not hot) water

pmsl at the photo!! Pebble's bath is luke warm and we top it up if it gets too chilly.

Thanks chaps. Should really start to trust my gut a bit more.

11-03-2011, 07:25 PM	#1
ethelandedna Member Incubating Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lichfield, UK Posts: 201	Pebble and the vet Well - confused dot com is back again. This evening we went and met Pebble's potential new vet. She is the reptile expert at the practice and she seemed to know her onions, but one or two things she told me totally contradicted everything I've heard on SW and read on other sites about Med torts/Hermanns. I'll list the points she made that perplexed me then sit back and wait for the fallout, I mean your responses. 1. She did not agree with any substrate in the enclosure other than newspaper or turf(!). Paper and other pelleted types are no-no. Topsoil, Tortoise Life and the like all harbour germs and are too dirty. Apparently Hermanns aren't a burrowing breed so they don't need a substrate to dig into. 2. My guinea pig cage set up is OK but a wooden tort table would be better. Plastics combined with the heat/light lamps are not a good thing. I did explain our cat situation but... a wooden table would be better long term. 3. The hay he sleeps in has got to go (which I knew). In it's place she said to put a hide - not wood as that can harbour germs and nasties - a plastic one or a cardboard box, and fill it with Comfort Zone. This is a biodegradable, cottonwool-like nesting material used for hamsters and gerbils. Her maxim is anything in the tort's enclosure should be either disinfectable or disposable. 4. Only bath him once a day as twice will make him get too cold. On the plus side she said he seems a healthy little chap and he's developing well. She checked him all over - eyes, nose, mouth, limbs, etc. One of his nares was a bit blocked but she cleaned that up. Poor Pebble (and vet lady has confirmed he is a 'he') has now had his hay nest confiscated and a pile of cotton wool put in its place. He is currently sulking in his log tunnel. I can't remember any more that she said as it was all rather intense. Most of it seemed OK and matched what I'd read elsewhere. She obviously sees other torts. They had had a Leopard in earlier that day and while we were there another lady was buying worming treatment for a tort. Obviosuly the bits that stuck in my mind were the bits that seemed at odds with what I'd read here on SW. So what does anyone think?

11-03-2011, 08:20 PM	#5
Aliza Member Juvenile Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 925	I am very sorry but I think you have been misinformed. Tortoises clearly love digging or they wouldn't do it. There is dirt in the wild which has dirt in it. In the desert everything is not disifected within an inch of their life. My torties are in a guinea pig table and they do fine, they are just as good as tortoise tables. Bathing him twice probably wont make her cold. Just try to do your research and consider how they would live in the wild. Im sure you will know what to do __________________ Aliza 0:2:0 THB - Tamba (12 yr old) and Treacle (10 yr old)

11-03-2011, 08:29 PM	#7
16 shells Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hull Posts: 7,286	Glad you got the all fine from the vet. What is used in a tort's habitat should be cleaned anyway, some do it once a month if using soil ect. The table giving a good once over with a sutable disinfectant or plain old hot water with a bit of washing up detergent. The great outdoor a lot is naturaly bio degradeable with the weather, but i can't remember the last time i scrubbed the wood in the outdoor enclosure, maybe never. All bedding's like hay type need refreshing before it has chance to start to decompose, also anything put in give a thought if tort's may eat it and could it cause impaction of the gut. __________________ Paul.

11-03-2011, 07:58 PM	#2
Helen M Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,362	Hmmm it would see that there are no germs in the wild at all according to this vet. If I were you I would make my own informed choice. If these were really inherent dangers you would find plenty of threads on here saying so. Helen xx

11-03-2011, 08:07 PM	#3
ethelandedna Member Incubating Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lichfield, UK Posts: 201	Hmm... Kind of what I was thinking. In the wild torts sleep in hygenically clean plastic boxes full of cotton wool. They don't dig scrapes in the earth and get at all mucky. I so want her to be a good tort vet as she's pretty local. Having said that I suppose if we look after Pebble well we won't need to visit her that often. It's just so hard, when you don't what's right and wrong yourself, to think the last person you spoke to is correct.

11-03-2011, 08:17 PM	#4
ClareandCo Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,350	Thought provoking reading. When we rehomed ours we were told by a very experienced keeper - they are not on here or any other forum that I know - that newspaper was the best substrate. We use Homebase topsoil. One of ours was housed in a guinea pig indoor cage, but spent all the time trying to climb up the sides so is now in an open top "table". The lights were a concern as they did seem to shine onto the plastic and I did wonder if it would get too hot. We were also told one bath or possibly two a year would be sufficient (please note though this is for an 80+ TGG). Be interesting to see what others have to say.

11-03-2011, 08:33 PM	#8
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	the trouble with a lot of vets is that they are a bit like a GP (*not my GP who is about as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike), they have a general knowledge about stuff rather than a specialised knowledge about anything in particular. 1. Newspaper is sometimes used after worming treatment has been given but not for permanent use. The topsoil you buy is sterilised but in the wild it isn't and they can't nip into their local newsagent for old copies of the daily mail to spread over southern france . the non burrowing hermann.. 4. they should be bathed in warm (but not hot) water

11-03-2011, 08:44 PM	#9
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	You should have said, will the paper I cover my garden with not get all soggy when it rains regarding the turf, I wonder if she meant artificial stuff, reptile carpet or something. I know some folks do use that and paper as well but it's more fore the benefit of the keeper than the tort. ease of cleaning out. real turf is continually damp even when it seems dry

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