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Old 01-09-2011, 09:59 PM   #11
Kirkie
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Before any more "I think I saw" post can I suggest that the statement is found and perhaps validated with the originator because this is just idle speculation and the topic here and elsewhere remains just that. I've never known a hobby or forum community like this. People who visited once and assessed the conditions based on "what they know" (single source no doubt) or people that haven't even been there critasiving and accusing.

I went to london zoo and there was a big pile of crap in the camel house. Now I'm no expert on camels but surely they should be shut down immediately!!!
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:09 PM   #12
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Dear all,

Below is a copy of a post I made on the Tortoise Trust forum which has kicked off this ‘witch hunt’ by Andy and some of his disciples, they have chosen to try and undermined the good work Joy does by peddling misinformation and dishonest interpretations of the facts to suite their own political agendas. Historically it has proven impossible to have an adult and rational debate on the TT site so I will not respond to the polemic rhetoric spouted by some of the fanatic residents. However, I will endeavour to answer any sensible questions people wish to post here. Please note that I will not be able to respond to any question until the 6th as I am away.

Regards,
Chris



Rarely have I seen so much misinformation in one thread, but then considering the hidden agendas of certain parties involve perhaps I shouldn’t be so surprised, disappointed - yes, surprised - no. To some politics is more important than the actual welfare of animals, which is a shame.

I have no intentions of replying to any of the diatribe this post will elicit from certain quarters, ration debate has proven to be impossible before and this will not have changed. Notwithstanding this correcting some of the misleading and disingenuous information contained in this thread might be helpful to others who are more interested in the facts, rather then the hidden political agenda.

The suggestion that Joy sell tortoises is simply untrue, why anyone wishes to make such a malicious statement is frankly beyond me! The suggestion by Andy that she breeds tortoises illegal is also untrue, he knows full well, or should know full well that in fact you do not need to have tortoise microchipped and A10’s in order to breed them, you only need to do so if you breed them with the intention to sell. The tortoises she breeds she keeps, as is her right to do so. I think she bred one clutch this year, so not exactly mass production!

The tortoise garden started its life as her own private collection, they acquired the land when she retired so she could enjoy her animals. It was latter that she started taking in other tortoise which need homes, most of the animals are from elderly people who have had the animals for many years and for various reasons are unable to continue to care for them. Typically these are people who don’t want their animals to be re-homed, they want to know where they are. People who’s animals go to the tortoise garden are encouraged to visit as often as possible, if for what ever reason the owners are unable to visit the tortoise sends them a postcard twice a year, which most people think is a nice gesture.

As for mixing of species, yes that is true. If a group of tortoise that have been living together for the passed fifty years come to the tortoise garden, they will be kept together. Joy makes a point of trying to meet the requirements of how they were kept prior to arriving at the tortoise garden. Some tortoises go to the tortoise garden only for the summer, sometimes because the owners no longer have a garden, or because they are too old to look after them outside.

In terms of the accusations over poor husbandry, all I will say are these are unfounded and spiteful; clearly some people have no shame. Further, some are plainly speaking out of total ignorance. One of the countries leading exotics vets has inspected the facility and been more than satisfied, as is her own vet. And yes, I have also been several times.

I think Joy is doing a fantastic job and full credit to her. Pity more people don’t do this valuable work, then looking at the ill-informed and snide criticism she has drawn from certain quarters perhaps its fully understandable why more people don’t!

And finally no she is not a zoo, she runs a sanctuary.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:31 AM   #13
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So what's all this about then? If it's about something that's going on elsewhere on the internet why post a reply on here?
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caledonia View Post
So what's all this about then? If it's about something that's going on elsewhere on the internet why post a reply on here?
Possibly because its relevant - have you not read what has happened to this Sanctuary recently? Its been online, in the news and on other forums etc.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:48 AM   #15
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..and here's the most recent link only posted a week ago on this very forum:

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...light=cornwall
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:03 AM   #16
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well just to state the obvious why on earth would you want to breed when you are over run with torts already!.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClareandCo View Post
..and here's the most recent link only posted a week ago on this very forum:

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...light=cornwall
I suggest that moderators integrate these two threads in order that the debate does not get fragmented and confused.
It seems, that a similar thread on another Internet forum; "Tortoise Trust", has become rather highly charged with various claims and accusations made.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:21 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClareandCo View Post
Possibly because its relevant - have you not read what has happened to this Sanctuary recently? Its been online, in the news and on other forums etc.
Yes I have. I have also read the original post (now post 7 after merging threads) in this thread which is someone asking a question which was answered in posts 2 (now post 8) and 4 (now post 10) in a manner you might expect. Then out of the blue there is post number 6 (now post 12) which is not replying to the OP (now post 7) as far as I can see but is referring to post on the Tortoise Trust forum and going on about a "witch hunt". What is the relevance to post number one?

Edited after someone merged the threads

Last edited by Alan1; 02-09-2011 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:25 AM   #19
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BTW, I don't go on any other tortoise forum so there's no chance of me seeing it there but if this is going to be an argument from another forum then take it back to that other forum please
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:31 AM   #20
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This paragraph of post 6 appears to me to answer the question posed and it is posted by someone who has visited the place on several occasions and aided them in their current plight. Which is the requirement for licencing to open to the public, not this other spirilous rubbish:

"The suggestion that Joy sell tortoises is simply untrue, why anyone wishes to make such a malicious statement is frankly beyond me! The suggestion by Andy that she breeds tortoises illegal is also untrue, he knows full well, or should know full well that in fact you do not need to have tortoise microchipped and A10’s in order to breed them, you only need to do so if you breed them with the intention to sell. The tortoises she breeds she keeps, as is her right to do so. I think she bred one clutch this year, so not exactly mass production!"
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