can u house a thb with a thh

[Tracy D]

Hi, i currently have a 1yr old thh tortoise, an i wanted to get him a little pal, but im finding it very hard to find another thh an was just wondering is there any dis-advantages to having a thh with a thb?

[EJ]

As I've mentioned before... many taxonomists do not even recognise subspecies... so... a Testudo hermanni is a Testudo hermanni. Until they split the East and West races... they are the same animal... so... you can keep them together.

Originally Posted by Tracy D

Hi, i currently have a 1yr old thh tortoise, an i wanted to get him a little pal, but im finding it very hard to find another thh an was just wondering is there any dis-advantages to having a thh with a thb?

[Tracy D]

Thanks for that info dats great news

[sandy]

Most keepers would not mix speices, or sub speices when their husbandry is different. THH dont normaly get hibernated, THB do. There is also a difference in size too. So if you ended up with two males you could be in trouble when it come to the dominance thing. As males can do a lot of damage to each other.
Just so you are aware.

[Tracy D]

Thats what i taught, because when i went to the local reptile shop he told me the size difference can be a problem and more than likely the thb will bully the thh.

[EJ]

Here's a little more information so you can make an informed decision...

Both races come from similar climates and habitats. Both races can be extremely variable in average size. As to the size... anything can happen when you put them together regardless of the size or sex so you really can't say what will happen if and when you put them together until you try it.

All of the Hermanni races do hibernate and have similar care requirements.

Originally Posted by Tracy D

Thats what i taught, because when i went to the local reptile shop he told me the size difference can be a problem and more than likely the thb will bully the thh.

[gtm]

Originally Posted by EJ

Here's a little more information so you can make an informed decision...

Both races come from similar climates and habitats. Both races can be extremely variable in average size. As to the size... anything can happen when you put them together regardless of the size or sex so you really can't say what will happen if and when you put them together until you try it.

All of the Hermanni races do hibernate and have similar care requirements.

Whats interesting is the 'operative' word used here is 'race' which I think is a very good word to describe the morphological differences between the various 'sub species' (a word I use with some degree of scepticism') that all med species throw up.

[EJ]

You can find specific differences among different isolated populations. If I can't see a clear difference I'd have to say they are races and not species. Again the concept of subspecies is slowly wasting away because of the wideness of the 'grey' area.

Originally Posted by gtm

Whats interesting is the 'operative' word used here is 'race' which I think is a very good word to describe the morphological differences between the various 'sub species' (a word I use with some degree of scepticism') that all med species throw up.

[gtm]

Originally Posted by EJ

You can find specific differences among different isolated populations. If I can't see a clear difference I'd have to say they are races and not species. Again the concept of subspecies is slowly wasting away because of the wideness of the 'grey' area.

we're vering into a discussion of the in's & out's of the 'complex' & I suppose there is a smaller hermanns complex as well (& indeed the horsefield complex as well - are there not 3 'sub species' described now?). What is needed is a large scale genetic work up on all the med tortoises to see

a) how closely the various 'subspecies' are related to each other.

b) In some ways a more interesting question is how the spur thighs, hermanns, marginated & horsefields fit together. ie when & what was the common ancestor?

[Bindi]

Originally Posted by gtm

we're vering into a discussion of the in's & out's of the 'complex' & I suppose there is a smaller hermanns complex as well (& indeed the horsefield complex as well - are there not 3 'sub species' described now?). What is needed is a large scale genetic work up on all the med tortoises to see

a) how closely the various 'subspecies' are related to each other.

b) In some ways a more interesting question is how the spur thighs, hermanns, marginated & horsefields fit together. ie when & what what was the common ancestor?

I would love to know the answer to that one