XRAYS AND OXYTOCIN = STRESS!...

terrific tortoises · 31-08-2006, 09:09 PM

...I took the day off work today for a good reason...I had booked some of my torts in for an xray at the vets. One of my Hermanns had fretted to lay eggs this year, but apart from expelling an egg here and there over the coarse of months, she just would not lay naturally, and this was the 2nd year she had done this. I would prefer my torts to lay naturally, but I suspected there may be a problem with this one, so I felt it was in her interests to have her xrayed. While I was at it, I decided to have others xrayed also, but this is only the 2nd time I have ever had my torts xrayed.

One xray showed that one of my Iberas had 8 eggs, and she had also showed signs of fretting, (but she had stopped when we had the heatwave)...The other xray was not so good, it showed 4 eggs in the hermanns, but one egg was a concern for my vet, he suggested that the appearance of this egg could mean that it was in her bladder! I was convinced it was just an over calcified egg. We agreed to induce both torts using Oxytocin, but if the hermanns did not lay all 4 eggs then the vet would do an internal.

Within an hour and a half the spur thigh Ibera had laid her 8 eggs without a problem, but the hermanns laid her first egg then she just went right off the idea about laying the other 3 eggs. I had the torts in boxes with shredded paper and heat lamps on them, I bathed the hermanns and started to get worried, the sun had come out so I thought I would try her outside, within about 15 minutes she started to push out the egg, and wow was it calcified, the remaining 2 eggs were laid quite easy after that, so my stress levels, (but more importantly my poor hermanns stress) lowered a great deal!...

My conclusion is this, it is perfectly ok to leave a female adult tort to lay her eggs the following year, but given this torts circumstances, I am glad I opted for "xrays and oxytocin" (inducement), because another year of calcium on that egg may have made it impossible for her to lay it...

Here are some photos comparing the eggs

...T.T. 8)

Dazza · 31-08-2006, 09:17 PM

what a stressful day tt, nice stiff drink is in oder now hey!

That over calcified egg looks painful

, does it feel as hard as it looks ?

what about fertility of all the eggs, even the ibera ones ???

rgds
Darren

piglet · 31-08-2006, 09:24 PM

Hi Paul
Glad you sorted it there's nothing wrong with checking to be safe and in this case its proved that as anther year and it could of been an operation to have it removed.
I have my females both ibera and Herman's x-rayed and induced from time to time myself especially if females become gravid early or late in the season when temps are difficult to maintain due to weather being to cold even to cold for greenhouse nesting , i no some people leave them as they will lay when the weather warms enough but i prefer to get them out so as not to cause over calcification .
People will say the husbandry is wrong if this process is relied on but i think this is the UK not the med and weather patterns are so different that i like to play it safe
Darren

terrific tortoises · 31-08-2006, 09:25 PM

Dazza, the Ibera eggs look good, so I will incubate those

...but the hermanns eggs do not look so good, so I will not be incubating those...I am just glad she has passed that egg, if you look at the other 3 eggs, they are showing small signs of over calcifying too

...T.T. 8)

piglet · 31-08-2006, 09:28 PM

TT your right the hermans eggs are probably passed it but fingers crossed for the ibera eggs just had a clutch laid only two myself so hopefully we will have hatchlings the same time
Darren

terrific tortoises · 31-08-2006, 09:31 PM

piglet, I agree with you darren (after all this is the UK!)...On reflection, I should have done this last year, but I do try to let nature take its coarse, however your right, in this instance, having her induced was correct

...T.T. 8)

terrific tortoises · 31-08-2006, 09:34 PM

piglet, we keep posting to each other at the same time mate

!!!...Thats good news about your eggs, this will be the 1st year that I have incubated this late

...T.T. 8)

Dazza · 31-08-2006, 09:36 PM

How old would the really calcified egg be ??

Last year or older ?

Darren

Henry-flash · 31-08-2006, 09:38 PM

Thanks for sharing the TT really interesting. I'm glad your hermanns is OK she did well to pass that egg

piglet · 31-08-2006, 09:39 PM

TT i often get late clutches but its usually because i suspect the particular female is gravid so get her xrayed and induced if necessary.
I was going to put a post up asking if anyone had clutches laid in September .
the last clutch laid in the drizzle of sunday afternoon .

31-08-2006, 09:09 PM	#1
terrific tortoises Member Juvenile Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 861	XRAYS AND OXYTOCIN = STRESS!... ...I took the day off work today for a good reason...I had booked some of my torts in for an xray at the vets. One of my Hermanns had fretted to lay eggs this year, but apart from expelling an egg here and there over the coarse of months, she just would not lay naturally, and this was the 2nd year she had done this. I would prefer my torts to lay naturally, but I suspected there may be a problem with this one, so I felt it was in her interests to have her xrayed. While I was at it, I decided to have others xrayed also, but this is only the 2nd time I have ever had my torts xrayed. One xray showed that one of my Iberas had 8 eggs, and she had also showed signs of fretting, (but she had stopped when we had the heatwave)...The other xray was not so good, it showed 4 eggs in the hermanns, but one egg was a concern for my vet, he suggested that the appearance of this egg could mean that it was in her bladder! I was convinced it was just an over calcified egg. We agreed to induce both torts using Oxytocin, but if the hermanns did not lay all 4 eggs then the vet would do an internal. Within an hour and a half the spur thigh Ibera had laid her 8 eggs without a problem, but the hermanns laid her first egg then she just went right off the idea about laying the other 3 eggs. I had the torts in boxes with shredded paper and heat lamps on them, I bathed the hermanns and started to get worried, the sun had come out so I thought I would try her outside, within about 15 minutes she started to push out the egg, and wow was it calcified, the remaining 2 eggs were laid quite easy after that, so my stress levels, (but more importantly my poor hermanns stress) lowered a great deal!... My conclusion is this, it is perfectly ok to leave a female adult tort to lay her eggs the following year, but given this torts circumstances, I am glad I opted for "xrays and oxytocin" (inducement), because another year of calcium on that egg may have made it impossible for her to lay it... Here are some photos comparing the eggs ...T.T. 8) __________________

31-08-2006, 09:24 PM	#3
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Hi Paul Glad you sorted it there's nothing wrong with checking to be safe and in this case its proved that as anther year and it could of been an operation to have it removed. I have my females both ibera and Herman's x-rayed and induced from time to time myself especially if females become gravid early or late in the season when temps are difficult to maintain due to weather being to cold even to cold for greenhouse nesting , i no some people leave them as they will lay when the weather warms enough but i prefer to get them out so as not to cause over calcification . People will say the husbandry is wrong if this process is relied on but i think this is the UK not the med and weather patterns are so different that i like to play it safe Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

31-08-2006, 09:25 PM	#4
terrific tortoises Member Juvenile Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 861	Dazza, the Ibera eggs look good, so I will incubate those ...but the hermanns eggs do not look so good, so I will not be incubating those...I am just glad she has passed that egg, if you look at the other 3 eggs, they are showing small signs of over calcifying too ...T.T. 8) __________________

31-08-2006, 09:28 PM	#5
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	TT your right the hermans eggs are probably passed it but fingers crossed for the ibera eggs just had a clutch laid only two myself so hopefully we will have hatchlings the same time Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

31-08-2006, 09:31 PM	#6
terrific tortoises Member Juvenile Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 861	piglet, I agree with you darren (after all this is the UK!)...On reflection, I should have done this last year, but I do try to let nature take its coarse, however your right, in this instance, having her induced was correct ...T.T. 8) __________________

31-08-2006, 09:17 PM	#2
Dazza Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,486	what a stressful day tt, nice stiff drink is in oder now hey! That over calcified egg looks painful , does it feel as hard as it looks ? what about fertility of all the eggs, even the ibera ones ??? rgds Darren

31-08-2006, 09:34 PM	#7
terrific tortoises Member Juvenile Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 861	piglet, we keep posting to each other at the same time mate !!!...Thats good news about your eggs, this will be the 1st year that I have incubated this late ...T.T. 8) __________________

31-08-2006, 09:36 PM	#8
Dazza Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,486	How old would the really calcified egg be ?? Last year or older ? Darren

31-08-2006, 09:38 PM	#9
Henry-flash Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 9,304	Thanks for sharing the TT really interesting. I'm glad your hermanns is OK she did well to pass that egg __________________ Peter Keeping: Testudo hermanni, Testudo graeca (graeca & ibera ), Testudo horsfieldi, Astrochelys radiata, Malacochersus tornieri and Kinixys belliana. The North West Tortoise Group

31-08-2006, 09:39 PM	#10
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	TT i often get late clutches but its usually because i suspect the particular female is gravid so get her xrayed and induced if necessary. I was going to put a post up asking if anyone had clutches laid in September . the last clutch laid in the drizzle of sunday afternoon . __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

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