Help please

[Beverley]

Thanks EJ, I was thinking you meant supplements, just wanted to be sure. I have saw pictures of tortoises fed on high protein diets on other sites such as the TT which show the damage it can do to certain species, whereas for some it is ok to have a little, I think protein in some cases is a factor in pyramiding but know other factors are involved as well. I think people try not to use misleading comments but are trying to be helpful, as I know you are. I use a UV bulb myself as its recommended by the tortoise trust and especially on wet days when I cannot get my tortoises outside.
For newer keepers such as myself we rely on what more experienced keepers tell us that is why I found the Trusts course on Tortoise care so helpful, as well as learning from people such as yourself. Thank you Its always good to hear what other viewpoints are even if they are different from what you have read or thought
Beverley

[EJ]

Bev, please look beyond the TT. There are many keepers who do not get into this aspect of the hobby because the can't be bothered with the attacks. Me?... I like a challange... or self abuse... I haven't figured out which or why I persist but rest assured there are many people who share my point of view.

To the point... supplements is not the only means... if you do a little research on the net you will see that relatively little sunshine is needed for D3 synthesis. That is in terms of people. When you are talking reptiles it is even less when you consider that the time of year you can't put them out they are either hibernating or the metabolism is so slow that they don't need a whole lot.

Originally Posted by Beverley

Thanks EJ, I was thinking you meant supplements, just wanted to be sure. I have saw pictures of tortoises fed on high protein diets on other sites such as the TT which show the damage it can do to certain species, whereas for some it is ok to have a little, I think protein in some cases is a factor in pyramiding but know other factors are involved as well. I think people try not to use misleading comments but are trying to be helpful, as I know you are. I use a UV bulb myself as its recommended by the tortoise trust and especially on wet days when I cannot get my tortoises outside.
For newer keepers such as myself we rely on what more experienced keepers tell us that is why I found the Trusts course on Tortoise care so helpful, as well as learning from people such as yourself. Thank you Its always good to hear what other viewpoints are even if they are different from what you have read or thought
Beverley

[sandy]

Dont they get UV from the sun then?

[EJ]

Yes, but it is obviously not a necessity. As long as vitamin D3 or any of it's precursors are provided, UV is not necessary.

What threw me is the statement 'They do need a UV light strip or UV lamp'. That is not the case. They don't NEED these bulbs and they will not become ill if the bulbs are not provided. More so is the scare tactic of the statement. I personally believe that kind of education is down right wrong.

Originally Posted by sandy

Dont they get UV from the sun then?

[tortoiseguy]

Beverley & Alby, while it is important to do your research and ask questions, taking on board differing opinions, it is a shame that some people give such poor advice which is very misleading. Yes tortoises did survive in the UK before the use of UV bulbs, however they did not survive for very long. People often talk of their tortoise that they had for about 20 years, for an animal expected to live 5 times this length it is hardly a ripe old age.
The tortoise trust has a great deal of specialist information and does amazing work it is by far the best source of information. For some reason EJ or ED has it in for the TT so please ignore 95% of what he says.

There are plenty of people on here who will happily give you loads of great info and its a shame that you stumbled accross an unreliable source. Please do not let this put you off finding out more information from other people who want to help you rather than have a dig at the TT

[Beverley]

Hi EJ. I always thought that UV was necessary, where my torts come from it would naturally be very sunny, so perhaps half an hour each day would do of natural sunlight, which I have always thought they need when feeding to help digest food, help form bony tissue and produce pre-vitamin D3 which in turn is converted to D3 using heat. So if its wet and cold here surely the best option is to use a UVB bulb. Without UV surely these processes would not work properly. I have seen recently a bearded dragon who never had a bulb who now has severe MBD so do you not think its better to be safe than sorry and use one. I know beardies are different from torts but the effect of no bulb scared me and I don't think I would risk not using one if they are inside, as my torts are too precious to me, I know you say look beyond the TT but its always been my opinion that if I even knew half of what Mr Highfield has forgotten it would be great. But I respect your view you are clearly a very experienced keeper and its always good to hear other viewpoints
Beverley

[tortoiseguy]

Beverley that was so well put it has brought a tear to my eye,

[Beverley]

Hi Tortoiseguy, Don't worry Ed would never make me think any less of the trust as I think they are amazing but at the end of the day Ed is entitled to his opinion and he does make you think, its good to hear others viewpoints at times as it makes you look perhaps more closely at things, but I,m not ready to cancel my TT membership yet but I respect Ed's view.
Beverley.

[nina]

Mmm. I really wasn't going to get involved in this discussion (have been there before). I am not a scientist, and I might be interpreting information incorrectly, but I do think it's important to recognise that the UVB reaching our torts in the UK for most of the year is far less than the UVB reaching the ground in much of the rest of the world. The farther north you are, the lower the angle of the sun, and also the cloud cover that we have for much of the year (just take a peak through your curtains) also diminishes the UV. Here is an interesting account of UV in nature, and if you look at the graph of the UVB levels around the world in December, you will see that only Scandinavia comes lower than the UK:
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm
Also, here is a whole lot of information about sunlight and vitamin D3 production
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/vitdpathway.htm
The point of all this is that I think that while supplements can help greatly with D3 production, it is possible to overdose vitamin D supplements (hypervitaminosis-D). The sun is the best source of UVB (and reptiles can't overdose on UVB from sunlight, as is explained in the link). In the UK the angle of the sun and the weakness of the sun shining through the atmosphere and cloud cover means that to have another light source of UVB is beneficial to tortoises (and that's why we use the tubes and the bulbs).

[Beverley]

Hi Nina and thank you that was very helpful
Beverley