Carlisle Tortoises - Page 3

elliot · 20-01-2010, 12:06 AM

take a look at the news report ,
poor little tort

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7355729.stm

**Alan1** · 20-01-2010, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elliot

take a look at the news report ,
poor little tort

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7355729.stm

What's the bbc animal guy ordering one for??? he has read on the website how they are delivered yet he orders one just to find out if it arrives alive or not!! he's just as bad. he's looking for a story rather than being concerned about the welfare of the tort

Pussygalore · 20-01-2010, 08:47 AM

if the temps were low the tort would just sleep the journey especially as its in the dark, and if it wasn't delayed it wouldn't suffocate especially when you think they can live under several inches of soil with no problems and they go without water for months during hibernation. While I'd never send any of mine by post I think most of the objections to doing so are more us saying 'poor thing', the actual risk of harm in a well padded double box like that is probably less than trying to bring back animals from the Hamm shop in the luggage compartment of a coach, the small box would reduce the risk of the tort turning on its back or being thrown around so if you are going to transport in this way I'd imagine that what was shown was probably as good a way of doing so as anything. The box would or should have live animals on it and the courier should know whats being carried, the objection isn't in the packaging but rather whether live animals should be couriered in the first place and while its not ilegal for people to do so they will.

**Alan1** · 20-01-2010, 10:10 AM

The delivery drivers are always pushed for time though and don't read what's on the parcels as they throw them into the vans. It's not their problem if the animal doesn't arrive alive. The drivers only look at the box when their clipboard says they have a delivery at x address, then then get out and look for the parcel. The torts may not can turn over in the box but the box has only a 25% chance of landing the right way up in the van. I recently ordered from Warehouse Express next day delivery, ordered on Wednesday but because of the snow it didn't come until the Monday as they don't do weekends

Pussygalore · 20-01-2010, 04:05 PM

but don't they have a responsibility for live animals, couldn't the owner/receiver sue if the animal was dead due to mishandling, I'd have thought that if the company agrees to carry livestock then they'd also be a bit more carefull they'd not get the business again if they didn't. After all any carrier can't afford to loose customers whatever the product they want delivered.

**Alan1** · 20-01-2010, 04:13 PM

it says on that video clip that the delivery company says the customer is responsible for it.. I take they mean their customer, i.e. carlisle tortoises.

The BBC guy says "I can't believe it, the tortoise has arrived in a cardboard box delivered by TNT, that's unbelievable" What a load of crap, he knew how it would be delivered and that's why he ordered it for the purpose of a news story!! Not sure that vet is an expert either

swad1000 · 20-01-2010, 04:17 PM

I asked a mate who works at a TNT sorting center about live animals sent via TNT, they are treated the same as any other package, and go through the same process.

So no special treatment just because they are live animals, if its minus 20 outside then the animal will be in the back of a lorry in that temp, until it gets sorted.

The sender is responsible for ensuring that any animals sent are suitably packaged.

It seems if you want special treatment you need to use a specialist courier, which obviously would cost extra.

**Alan1** · 01-02-2010, 10:06 PM

the date has passed for the court appearance, never heard owt else

**Alan1** · 05-08-2010, 07:58 AM

The case must still be pending but there was an update since Feb in April

Quote:

Carlisle man charged with trading protected species
Published at 08:39, Friday, 09 April 2010

A Cumbrian man charged with illegally trading endangered tortoises is accused of selling a total of 108 reptiles.

Robert Roland Struthers, 35, of Nelson Street, Denton Holme, Carlisle, faces eight charges of trading protected species and one of fraud.

Struthers is accused of selling a total of 22 marginated tortoises, 76 spur-thighed tortoises and 10 Hermann’s tortoises.

The sales are alleged to have taken place between April 1 and September 24 2009.

Struthers also faces a charge of fraud by tampering with an official certificate in order to purport that he had the authority to trade.

He has not entered a plea to any of the charges.

Struthers appeared before Carlisle magistrates but the hearing was adjourned for him to seek legal representation.

He will return to court on Tuesday, April 27 when the case will be committed to Carlisle Crown Court.

http://www.cumberlandnews.co.uk/news...?referrerPath=

WriterNick · 05-08-2010, 01:42 PM

It's a dreadful story isn't it - when I was researching tortoises I looked at Carlisle's website and they seemed a caring and well run company. It's a pity that they are still trading from the website

Anyway, I have a recent update:
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/ca...errerPath=home
Looks like it's still dragging on but he could be sentenced arpund November or December. As it's gone to Crown Court rather than a magistrates court then it could indicate that the authorities expect the crimes, if proven, to merit a custodial sentence of 12 months or more.

20-01-2010, 12:06 AM	#21
elliot Junior Member Egg Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: bristol Posts: 26	news report take a look at the news report , poor little tort http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7355729.stm __________________ Elliot 0.0.2 Hermanns; Shellby and Sherman 0.2.0 Cats; Robyn and Sonya 0.1.0 Partner; Joe 3.0.0 Children; David, Jason and Toby

20-01-2010, 08:47 AM	#23
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	if the temps were low the tort would just sleep the journey especially as its in the dark, and if it wasn't delayed it wouldn't suffocate especially when you think they can live under several inches of soil with no problems and they go without water for months during hibernation. While I'd never send any of mine by post I think most of the objections to doing so are more us saying 'poor thing', the actual risk of harm in a well padded double box like that is probably less than trying to bring back animals from the Hamm shop in the luggage compartment of a coach, the small box would reduce the risk of the tort turning on its back or being thrown around so if you are going to transport in this way I'd imagine that what was shown was probably as good a way of doing so as anything. The box would or should have live animals on it and the courier should know whats being carried, the objection isn't in the packaging but rather whether live animals should be couriered in the first place and while its not ilegal for people to do so they will. Last edited by Pussygalore; 20-01-2010 at 09:03 AM.

20-01-2010, 04:13 PM	#26
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	it says on that video clip that the delivery company says the customer is responsible for it.. I take they mean their customer, i.e. carlisle tortoises. The BBC guy says "I can't believe it, the tortoise has arrived in a cardboard box delivered by TNT, that's unbelievable" What a load of crap, he knew how it would be delivered and that's why he ordered it for the purpose of a news story!! Not sure that vet is an expert either Last edited by Alan1; 20-01-2010 at 04:20 PM.

20-01-2010, 10:10 AM	#24
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	The delivery drivers are always pushed for time though and don't read what's on the parcels as they throw them into the vans. It's not their problem if the animal doesn't arrive alive. The drivers only look at the box when their clipboard says they have a delivery at x address, then then get out and look for the parcel. The torts may not can turn over in the box but the box has only a 25% chance of landing the right way up in the van. I recently ordered from Warehouse Express next day delivery, ordered on Wednesday but because of the snow it didn't come until the Monday as they don't do weekends

20-01-2010, 04:05 PM	#25
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	but don't they have a responsibility for live animals, couldn't the owner/receiver sue if the animal was dead due to mishandling, I'd have thought that if the company agrees to carry livestock then they'd also be a bit more carefull they'd not get the business again if they didn't. After all any carrier can't afford to loose customers whatever the product they want delivered.

20-01-2010, 04:17 PM	#27
swad1000 Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,702	I asked a mate who works at a TNT sorting center about live animals sent via TNT, they are treated the same as any other package, and go through the same process. So no special treatment just because they are live animals, if its minus 20 outside then the animal will be in the back of a lorry in that temp, until it gets sorted. The sender is responsible for ensuring that any animals sent are suitably packaged. It seems if you want special treatment you need to use a specialist courier, which obviously would cost extra.

01-02-2010, 10:06 PM	#28
Alan1 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sunny Scotland Posts: 21,512	the date has passed for the court appearance, never heard owt else

05-08-2010, 01:42 PM	#30
WriterNick Member Juvenile Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Yorkshire Posts: 956	It's a dreadful story isn't it - when I was researching tortoises I looked at Carlisle's website and they seemed a caring and well run company. It's a pity that they are still trading from the website Anyway, I have a recent update: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/ca...errerPath=home Looks like it's still dragging on but he could be sentenced arpund November or December. As it's gone to Crown Court rather than a magistrates court then it could indicate that the authorities expect the crimes, if proven, to merit a custodial sentence of 12 months or more.

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