Manufactured Diet... very long post.

[Pussygalore]

What Helen said was interesting and I was wondering how you would find out whether all of those ingredients/chemicals or whatever could be found in grazing and natural food and in what quantities or if it is formulated on a well educated guess, i still say theres definately something addictive in them, maybe the redfoots have some kind of withdrawal symptons when they go to long without ( think they were redfoots), even the first time I tried them I've never seen my torts react like they did they could smell it a long way off and moved very fast towards me, perhaps its like catnip is to cats.

[helen1]

There is salt present in fresh salad, vegetables, fruit etc (quite some too in stuff like artichokes) so I guess salt occurs naturally in weeds etc, sodium is essential in diet too for certain processes and I am sure it is in there to create the correct balance?

For those who have to limit their salt intake check out how much is present naturally!!!!!!! and it is good for us too...

[EJ]

The guess work was and is a concern but as time goes on it becomes less so.

Remember... I didn't just jump into using this stuff it was a gradual process. Also, I'm not telling anyone what they are doing is wrong. These are my studies and observations... nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by stells

ok thanks Ed. the guess work involved would worry me though i'm afraid

[helen1]

Etoxyquin is quinoline based...I think...had to research this ages ago..it can cause liver damage...but this is dependant on amounts and any number of other factors.

It is used in humans foods too mainly spices...in human foods it is considered safe at 5 ppm or so in dog/catfood it is present at 150ppm. Again I remember checking the amount in a dried tort diet and it was not approaching that of other foods...I will email the makers and find out though unless someone has that knowledge and could let me know?

I think before we stir up un neccessary panic though we must also remember that substances present in natural foods are also carcinogenic etc to certain people..they act as triggers is all...

[Pussygalore]

I'm just interested but would like to know the reasons for feeding them and the reasons for not, I don't but mainly because every says don't so to know why would be helpfull at least to me, my instincts say don't but thats like saying " I feel it in my water "

[sarah]

VERY interesting, thank you for that post you really explained yourself. Why can you not do that more offen! then people would not argue with you so much.

[sandy]

Why pay money for a manufactured product when there are plenty of plants around?
Tortoises have survived for millions of years on a natural diet, so why change it?

[EJ]

Draught... insufficient variety/balance... large population... convenience... better nutrition...

Originally Posted by sandy

Why pay money for a manufactured product when there are plenty of plants around?
Tortoises have survived for millions of years on a natural diet, so why change it?

[pawsplus]

Originally Posted by EJ

Draught... insufficient variety/balance... large population... convenience... better nutrition...

Lord, I know I said I'd stay out of it, but this is why esp. African tortoises are supposed to eat HAY. ??? Heck, you can even order different varieties from Oxbox, etc., if that is important to you. There is no "better" nutrition than what the animal is meant to eat, and these torts' GI tracts require a HUGE amount of fibre and LOW protein.

[JustAnja]

Originally Posted by sandy

Why pay money for a manufactured product when there are plenty of plants around?
Tortoises have survived for millions of years on a natural diet, so why change it?

Well in about a month there will be a foot or two of snow on the ground here that will last most of the winter. No weeds/grasses at that time and there wont be any until June of next year. With the amount of torts to feed its not cost effective to order in and just because I plant weeds/grasses doesnt always mean I will have a sufficient supply available indoors all winter. I dont feel its going to be healthy for the torts to just live on dried hay all winter either. I plan to use the Mazuri tort chow, have hay available for them and give them the occasional organic Spring Mix as a treat.

**I am feeding Leopards, Russians, a Sulcata and Hermanns Torts**