'Hibernation' at various temperatures

[ClareandCo]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Turtle#p0060vdd
Not that I would recommend it at home, the sequence taken from "a life in cold blood" with hatchling painted Turtles in North America shows a frozen period in their early development of these very beautiful North American Turtles.

That was fascinating to watch - four seasons in 3 minutes!

Thanks for the link Paul.

[Levi]

Frozen alive

http://www.naturenorth.com/winter/frozen/Ffrozen.html

[burnt toast]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Turtle#p0060vdd
Not that I would recommend it at home, the sequence taken from "a life in cold blood" with hatchling painted Turtles in North America shows a frozen period in their early development of these very beautiful North American Turtles.

Great link thank you Paul - I would never have thought they would survive that, fascinating.

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan

I think the problem with temperatures of between 10 and 15 centigrade is that some metabolic processes are marching along quite significantly but there is no digestion or intake of food for nutrition. This may lead to the reserves of the tortoise becoming exhausted.

I know that some keepers in the states use a method of 'cooling' which is a period of lower temperatures that slow the tortoise down considerably but not as much as 'full hibernation'. I've not been able to find out anything more detailed than that about 'cooling' and that is probably because nobody wants to be feeling responsible.

Near 5C the tortoises' metabolism is obviously very much slowed down and ought not be using any fuel reserves. So it might not be such a problem if it hardly has any.

It might not have been 15c, I am not sure but think 10c was mentioned, maybe by Boxgirl I remember reading it

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

you totally lost me there Alan, I assume that hibernation in all animals is basically the same, done because there is insufficient food/heat for the animal to operate and the animals metabolism slows right down during the 'sleep' enabling it to survive on its body fat and stored water. I also assume that there has to be a temp for this to take place ie to cold and the animal freezes to warm but not enough to be awake and active it uses up its stores to fast and would eventually die of starvation/dehydration. Did you see the frozen planet the other week showing a caterpillar that totally freezes in the snow/ice for several years before turning into a moth/butterfly I think it doesn't have long enough during the short summer to get fat enough to change so it takes that long, but it is frozen solid yet thaws and lives, amazing programme

What I meant was .. as Bindi has said, torts do not hibernate so when people say they hibernate their torts at 4c or whatever, my torts are doing the same at 35c only much faster and someone else is doing it at 10c and their torts are doing what they do at a slower pace than mine but faster than than those in the fridges.

I know someone who has kept 2 torts in their conservatory in winter for many many years, no UV bulbs or heating or anything like that and fed on cabbage etc and although much less active in winter, they don't 'hibernate' and neither do they die and they do eat even though everyone seems to believe that torts don't eat or digest food under 30c or whatever

[steeley]

My torts are left out in their house all winter,I programme the thermostat down to come on when it drops below 5c,therefore the temps fluctuate with the weather.
When it is cold the dig in and bury under the substrate,but when it is mild they come out on top of the substrate albight very lethargic.
However at the beginning of March(usually 2nd), all seven wake up within a day or so of each other and are raring to go.
Time to put the magnet on the electric meter

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by steeley

My torts are left out in their house all winter,I programme the thermostat down to come on when it drops below 5c,therefore the temps fluctuate with the weather.
When it is cold the dig in and bury under the substrate,but when it is mild they come out on top of the substrate albight very lethargic.
However at the beginning of March(usually 2nd), all seven wake up within a day or so of each other and are raring to go.
Time to put the magnet on the electric meter

Now that is more like the conditions they encounter in the wild

[16 shells]

Slowing down at 35c is more like an estivation in a Tortoise to add to the dilemma . Hibernation word is commonly used and sorta understood. Brumate is what they do if the condition's are crap. The cooling of species like African's can be done for a while i believe, as some come across a weather winter change "the wild". Around 10c i think for a couple of month's in captivity, in an out building just sort of sat there. There is a risk to offer this temp.

[Shelled Lady]

Originally Posted by caledonia

Having been reading a few posts on a few threads it has got me wondering about the hibernation temperatures required - or not required.

As torts do not actually hibernate, what then is the best temperature to keep them at over the winter months?

I personally 'hibernate' mine at between 20c and 35c but other people prefer 5c which means they go about their business much more slowly than mine. There are other people who keep their torts between 10c and 15c successfully over winter which means they are operating more slowly than mine but much faster than those at 5c.

In the wild the temperatures fluctuate and the tortoises move according to what the temperature is, even coming up for food on warmer days before going back down again and digging deeper if the temps drop.

So, are they all 'hibernating' but just at different temperatures or are none of them 'hibernating', only slowing down (in two cases at least) or are only the ones kept at 5c 'hibernating'?

I don't quite understand, what you are getting at. How do you hibernate your tortoise at such a high temperature of 35c. Surely they would be active and eating? Keeping a tortoise under 10c is going to send it into hibernation not brumation. I have had some of mine hibernating soundly at 10-15c in a cold place. Brumation as I understand is completely different. The animal stays active and will appear to be active if disturbed. Examples are some lizards which brumate underground for the winter. They remain alert but not fast moving but the cold does not affect them completely as long as they are below the frost line.

At what ever temperature your tortoise goes dormant and asleep is hibernation but it has to be below 15c, otherwise it will wake. No tortoise will be going about their business at 5c, they will not be able to move!

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Shelled Lady

I don't quite understand, what you are getting at. How do you hibernate your tortoise at such a high temperature of 35c. Surely they would be active and eating?

Yes they are active and eating, that's what I'm saying.. whatever temperature you keep them at throughout the winter (or any time of year) they go about their business according to that temperature. Tortoises don't hibernate but if you keep them at 5c they will simply operate at a slower pace, like not needing to eat for months. Keeping them at a bit higher they will eat very little and not be very active and keeping them at 35c they will be active and eating (but if they are kept at 32-35c all year yound there will be spells when they are less active and eat less, at least that's what happens with mine). Of course, they will die if you keep them at 5c permanently.

They are not sleeping all the time when kept at 5c. Lots of people have said their torts eyes are open and they are looking about