Expert advice needed...

SumbodyZMom · 22-07-2007, 11:50 PM

Hi all!

I've been lurking here for the past 2 days.

I have SOOO many questions...don't want to scare you guys on my first post though...

We (my family and I) have acquired a much neglected Greek Tortoise. (I think she's a SHE and the Iberia sort?!)

She had been fed canned green beans and tomatoes for the last 6 mos.

We've had her 48 hrs. now and she has passed torty poops (think they're normal?) and peed. (chalk white and thick)

We've fed her so far dandylions (flowers and leaves) and clover (flowers and leaves) and she's eaten plantain from our yard.

My first concern is food.

The pet store guy (ha!) told us all we neeced were the turtle pellets that were given to us with her (she won't eat them, they look like mini Fruity Pebbles cereal) and to hold all the veggies till she eats them. I'm not comfortable with that.

Can I overdo the flowers? Or the dandylions and clover?

HOW much do we feed her? She ate 10 dandy flowers and about as many clover flowers this AM.

I want to get the food thing straightened out first, then I'll hit you all up with housing, behavior, etc...LOL BTW I LOVED the pic' section on this forum! And the housing enclosures...wow!

I'll attach a pic of Trixy...we think she's rather cute. (sorry it's so big, I can't seem to "shrink" the image here)

Zeec · 23-07-2007, 03:53 AM

Hey SumbodyZMom, You have a russian tortoise not an ibera, It looks great

sandy · 23-07-2007, 07:33 AM

Yes you have a horsfield there<g>.
Pellets are a no no high in proteins. You could over feed on flowers and weeds if he/she was
fed all day every day on them<g>. If he/she is foraging in the garden for food (if you have
the suitable plants) then thats fine. If feeding indoors (he/she should be outside in the
sunshine soaking up the UV light) then once a day is sufficent. There is a good list in the
plant section of this site, or try www.thetortoisehouse.com or www.tortoises.net.
Please feel free to ask any question, none is too silly to ask. Only the one not asked is silly.

joathome · 23-07-2007, 09:04 AM

Welcome, you have a lovely tort their, i have 4 horsfields, great characters, pellets are just a gimmic sold by useless pet shops who havent got a clue, weeds weeds and more weeds will be great for her, the pic looks like she is hiding under a Hosta, they are great to eat aswell (well if your a tort that is) have fun with her

lovetortoise · 23-07-2007, 10:04 AM

Pet shop`s in Sweden also try to sell theese worthless pellets. Do you think they have the same training all of them?? Wortless training in that case regarding reptiles and tortoise.
A person buy a tortoise in a petshop and gets advice.... Then when they ( if they ...) join the forum they are told the opposite of what they were told by the petshop. I cant understand why the petshops dont get serious in their knowledge about reptiles and such....This makes me so sad!

autumnique · 23-07-2007, 10:27 AM

Welcome to SW-lovely torte

i have a horsfield too

chelonaki · 23-07-2007, 12:59 PM

Hi!

I think you are doing the right thing to care for this (lovely!!!) tortoise!
I am definately no expert: I have only been reading on caring for tortoises during the last month so as to adopt one in the end. But I have done some search and reading on some things including the tortoise's best diet. I have collected some links that I think you may find useful. If some experts from SW want to advice against some of the following, please do! I found many of the links below from SW!

Edible plants:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/plantfoods.html
http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/Diet.htm#plantlist
http://www.blueskies.co.uk/newbatk/edible_plants.htm
http://www.turtlestuff.com/foodplantlists.html

Here http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/c...on/message/730 is a very good list of **cactuses and cucculents** , but you have to register there to see it. So, here it is:
******
Hibiscus (leaves & Flowers)*
Morus (Mulberry, leaves & Fruit)
Gazania krebsiana*
Barleria obtusa* (flowers)
Tradescantia (29 out of 30 species)
Aloe Vera (African)
Abutilon hybridium (flowers)
Mimula luteus & cupreus
Cotyledon orbiculata (green variety)
Painted Lady*
Echeveria fimbriata
Echeveria coccinea
Echeveria elegans
Echeveria agavoides
Graptoveria debbi
Graptoveria bellum
Kalanchoe beharensis
Kalanchoe tomentosa
Kalanchoe rhombopilosa
Kalanchoe tubiflora
Kalanchoe fedtschenkoi
Kalanchoe blossfeldiana
Lampranthus spectabilis
Lampranthus haworthi
Malvaviscus arboreum (flowers)
Testudinaria elephantipes
Actotis
Testudinaria macrostachya (also called tortoise plant)
Lippia*
Lederbouria spp*
Pilia*
Violets (not African - English)*
Petunias
Alyssum
Watercress
Endives
Russelia Juncea (coral plant - flowers) Mesembryanthemum*
Aeonium arboreum
Geranium (Pelargonium)
Aeonium haworthii
Agave parryi
Aloe kedongensis
Cotyledon
ladismithensis
Indigenous hen & chicken
Crassula arborescens
Crassula schmidtii
Crassula tetragona
Crassula streyi
Schlumbergera spp
Calisia Repens (golliwog)*
Berula erecta
Callisia elegans
Bulbine
natalensis
Bulbine latifolia
Albucalilly
Eriocephalus africanus
Colocasia spp(not to be confused with elephants foot Alocasia macrorrhiza)
Mackaya bella (flowers)
White and blue Mazus
Nylandtia spinosa (tortoise berry)

(Note from chelonaki: the cactuses and succulents are the families: Aloe, Echeveria, Lampranthus, Aeonium, Agave and Crassula)

*****
Toxic, poisonous:
http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/plantsthatpoison.htm
http://www.blueskies.co.uk/newbatk/poison_plants.htm
http://www.sdturtle.org/Plants%20that%20Poison.htm

General information on nutrition, food and nutritional elements:
http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/basictortare.htm
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vitamins.html
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/basicmedfood.htm
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/webdiet.htm
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/d3.html

Buy seeds online:
http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalo...hp?cPath=21_50
http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/index.htm
http://www.tlady.clara.net/herbiseed.htm

Buy plants or plugs online:
http://www.naturescape.co.uk/acatalog/potplants3.html (plants+plugs+seeds)
http://www.crocus.co.uk/findplant/ (plants)

Buy cactuses (opuntias are the best for tortoises) + succulents (all) online:
http://easycactus.co.uk/shop/customer/
http://www.cactusshop.co.uk/
http://www.glenhirstcactiandpalms.co...roduction.html

The lists above are in no way complete or the best lists: they are just *my* lists, and the experts here could say if they are good or not (they are very carefully chosen though)!

************************************************** **********************

For substrates, lighting, humidity, temperature etc. you can look here: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/articles.html

As far as housing and questions about anything is concerned I think the best place to get good ideas is here, just as you discovered yourself!

I think that your tortoise is extremely cute!!!!!!! In fact, I think she has one of the cutest faces I have ever seen

Good luck!

SumbodyZMom · 23-07-2007, 01:08 PM

I am here because your torts look much more lovely than the ones we saw in the pet shops here!

Okay, I have a Russian Horsfield...

shows you what the pet shop owners know!!!!

This little lady is currently in a vivarium. Her previous owner did not keep it up, it was very dirty and I do believe the lighting right now might be inadequate.

She's downright miserable, she spends most of the time climbing up the sides or on top of her sleeping log.

My hubby is currently getting ideas with son to build her a table. We're thinking 2' X 4' at least. She will be able to spend some summer months outside but we currently supervise her runs as we don't have an enclosure yet. (yes! she loves the garden!) We also have fox, hawks and other predators in our area, so her outside pen is on the "to do" list.

I have so many weeds in our back lot (we live on 3 acres in the country with a brook running through our property) I can't identify them all.

So far she has only foraged clover (white and red) dandilions (she adores those!) and some broad leaf plantain. We have lots of blooming weeds right now. I will have to go through some pictures to figure out which are safe for her and try to gather some seeds for the winter months.

I have a tree that is called a "profusion crab apple" that drops these little berries (not apples!) that the wild birds love. She tried tasting those yesterday and I think she actually did eat a few. They are small, red and hard right now, in the fall season they will get soft and more like a raisin. I am hoping those are okay.

Any guess as to how old she is?

Her shell is about 4.2 inches in length.

I'm now off to read more about diet. Thanks to all for the links! I have bookmarked all of them!

(BTW--pellets are now in the trash!

)

chelonaki · 23-07-2007, 01:46 PM

PS additions to cucculent families in that list: "(Note from chelonaki: the cactuses and succulents are the families: Aloe, Echeveria, Graptoveria, Kalanchoe, Lampranthus, Aeonium, Agave and Crassula)

Personally, I will put up an indoor table 6' x' 6' and an outdoor 6' x 8' . The possibly biggest you can make it the better for the tortoise. Tortoises need space: the mediteraneans travell from 1/2 mile to many miles a day in the wild (depening on the temperature/season). You can build a temporary (large) outdoor home by just making some soroundings (1' high) in the garden and a netting on the top to protect her from animals, and keep her there most of the day until you build the indoor one. Then, you can make a proper outdoor one.

It will be much easier for you if you planted you own plants, unless you are a botanist

Fruit should only be given as a very occasional treet to meds. You will find all info on nutrition on those links.

I am sure the experts here will be able to tell you about her age, health etc!

(Most of SW will not agree with that

but, you could take-save one more Horsfield from that shop (horrible!!) to keep your current one company...

You should also report that shop the the relevant authorities and make sure the torts there go to tortoise rescue places of UK)

Henry-flash · 23-07-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chelonaki

(Most of SW will not agree with that

but, you could take-save one more Horsfield from that shop (horrible!!) to keep your current one company...

You should also report that shop the the relevant authorities and make sure the torts there go to tortoise rescue places of UK)

I personally wouldn't get another from the shop, but then thats down to persoal choice. I don't think the tortoises will end up in UK rescue centres as SumbodyZMom is in the USA.

22-07-2007, 11:50 PM	#1
SumbodyZMom Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Up North USA Posts: 73	Expert advice needed... Hi all! I've been lurking here for the past 2 days. I have SOOO many questions...don't want to scare you guys on my first post though... We (my family and I) have acquired a much neglected Greek Tortoise. (I think she's a SHE and the Iberia sort?!) She had been fed canned green beans and tomatoes for the last 6 mos. We've had her 48 hrs. now and she has passed torty poops (think they're normal?) and peed. (chalk white and thick) We've fed her so far dandylions (flowers and leaves) and clover (flowers and leaves) and she's eaten plantain from our yard. My first concern is food. The pet store guy (ha!) told us all we neeced were the turtle pellets that were given to us with her (she won't eat them, they look like mini Fruity Pebbles cereal) and to hold all the veggies till she eats them. I'm not comfortable with that. Can I overdo the flowers? Or the dandylions and clover? HOW much do we feed her? She ate 10 dandy flowers and about as many clover flowers this AM. I want to get the food thing straightened out first, then I'll hit you all up with housing, behavior, etc...LOL BTW I LOVED the pic' section on this forum! And the housing enclosures...wow! I'll attach a pic of Trixy...we think she's rather cute. (sorry it's so big, I can't seem to "shrink" the image here)

23-07-2007, 07:33 AM	#3
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Yes you have a horsfield there<g>. Pellets are a no no high in proteins. You could over feed on flowers and weeds if he/she was fed all day every day on them<g>. If he/she is foraging in the garden for food (if you have the suitable plants) then thats fine. If feeding indoors (he/she should be outside in the sunshine soaking up the UV light) then once a day is sufficent. There is a good list in the plant section of this site, or try www.thetortoisehouse.com or www.tortoises.net. Please feel free to ask any question, none is too silly to ask. Only the one not asked is silly. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

23-07-2007, 09:04 AM	#4
joathome Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: colchester, essex Posts: 2,046	Welcome, you have a lovely tort their, i have 4 horsfields, great characters, pellets are just a gimmic sold by useless pet shops who havent got a clue, weeds weeds and more weeds will be great for her, the pic looks like she is hiding under a Hosta, they are great to eat aswell (well if your a tort that is) have fun with her __________________ JO

23-07-2007, 10:04 AM	#5
lovetortoise Junior Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 32	Pet shop`s in Sweden also try to sell theese worthless pellets. Do you think they have the same training all of them?? Wortless training in that case regarding reptiles and tortoise. A person buy a tortoise in a petshop and gets advice.... Then when they ( if they ...) join the forum they are told the opposite of what they were told by the petshop. I cant understand why the petshops dont get serious in their knowledge about reptiles and such....This makes me so sad! __________________ Maria Testudo Hermanni and Testudo Marginata http://landskoldpaddor.googlepages.com/

23-07-2007, 12:59 PM	#7
chelonaki Member Incubating Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern United Kingdom Posts: 147	Hi! I think you are doing the right thing to care for this (lovely!!!) tortoise! I am definately no expert: I have only been reading on caring for tortoises during the last month so as to adopt one in the end. But I have done some search and reading on some things including the tortoise's best diet. I have collected some links that I think you may find useful. If some experts from SW want to advice against some of the following, please do! I found many of the links below from SW! Edible plants: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/plantfoods.html http://www.tlady.clara.net/TortGuide/Diet.htm#plantlist http://www.blueskies.co.uk/newbatk/edible_plants.htm http://www.turtlestuff.com/foodplantlists.html Here http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/c...on/message/730 is a very good list of cactuses and cucculents , but you have to register there to see it. So, here it is: ****** Hibiscus (leaves & Flowers)* Morus (Mulberry, leaves & Fruit) Gazania krebsiana* Barleria obtusa* (flowers) Tradescantia (29 out of 30 species) Aloe Vera (African) Abutilon hybridium (flowers) Mimula luteus & cupreus Cotyledon orbiculata (green variety) Painted Lady* Echeveria fimbriata Echeveria coccinea Echeveria elegans Echeveria agavoides Graptoveria debbi Graptoveria bellum Kalanchoe beharensis Kalanchoe tomentosa Kalanchoe rhombopilosa Kalanchoe tubiflora Kalanchoe fedtschenkoi Kalanchoe blossfeldiana Lampranthus spectabilis Lampranthus haworthi Malvaviscus arboreum (flowers) Testudinaria elephantipes Actotis Testudinaria macrostachya (also called tortoise plant) Lippia* Lederbouria spp* Pilia* Violets (not African - English)* Petunias Alyssum Watercress Endives Russelia Juncea (coral plant - flowers) Mesembryanthemum* Aeonium arboreum Geranium (Pelargonium) Aeonium haworthii Agave parryi Aloe kedongensis Cotyledon ladismithensis Indigenous hen & chicken Crassula arborescens Crassula schmidtii Crassula tetragona Crassula streyi Schlumbergera spp Calisia Repens (golliwog)* Berula erecta Callisia elegans Bulbine natalensis Bulbine latifolia Albucalilly Eriocephalus africanus Colocasia spp(not to be confused with elephants foot Alocasia macrorrhiza) Mackaya bella (flowers) White and blue Mazus Nylandtia spinosa (tortoise berry) (Note from chelonaki: the cactuses and succulents are the families: Aloe, Echeveria, Lampranthus, Aeonium, Agave and Crassula) ***** Toxic, poisonous: http://www.turtlestuff.com/avoidthese.html http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/plantsthatpoison.htm http://www.blueskies.co.uk/newbatk/poison_plants.htm http://www.sdturtle.org/Plants%20that%20Poison.htm General information on nutrition, food and nutritional elements: http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/basictortare.htm http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/vitamins.html http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/basicmedfood.htm http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/webdiet.htm http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/d3.html Buy seeds online: http://www.organiccatalog.com/catalo...hp?cPath=21_50 http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/seeds/pages/index.htm http://www.tlady.clara.net/herbiseed.htm Buy plants or plugs online: http://www.naturescape.co.uk/acatalog/potplants3.html (plants+plugs+seeds) http://www.crocus.co.uk/findplant/ (plants) Buy cactuses (opuntias are the best for tortoises) + succulents (all) online: http://easycactus.co.uk/shop/customer/ http://www.cactusshop.co.uk/ http://www.glenhirstcactiandpalms.co...roduction.html The lists above are in no way complete or the best lists: they are just my lists, and the experts here could say if they are good or not (they are very carefully chosen though)! ************************************************ ******************** For substrates, lighting, humidity, temperature etc. you can look here: http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/articles.html As far as housing and questions about anything is concerned I think the best place to get good ideas is here, just as you discovered yourself! I think that your tortoise is extremely cute!!!!!!! In fact, I think she has one of the cutest faces I have ever seen Good luck! __________________ chelonaki

23-07-2007, 03:53 AM	#2
Zeec Member Egg Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 53	Hey SumbodyZMom, You have a russian tortoise not an ibera, It looks great

23-07-2007, 10:27 AM	#6
autumnique Member Hatched Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Telford Shropshire Posts: 475	Welcome to SW-lovely torte i have a horsfield too

23-07-2007, 01:08 PM	#8
SumbodyZMom Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Up North USA Posts: 73	I am here because your torts look much more lovely than the ones we saw in the pet shops here! Okay, I have a Russian Horsfield... shows you what the pet shop owners know!!!! This little lady is currently in a vivarium. Her previous owner did not keep it up, it was very dirty and I do believe the lighting right now might be inadequate. She's downright miserable, she spends most of the time climbing up the sides or on top of her sleeping log. My hubby is currently getting ideas with son to build her a table. We're thinking 2' X 4' at least. She will be able to spend some summer months outside but we currently supervise her runs as we don't have an enclosure yet. (yes! she loves the garden!) We also have fox, hawks and other predators in our area, so her outside pen is on the "to do" list. I have so many weeds in our back lot (we live on 3 acres in the country with a brook running through our property) I can't identify them all. So far she has only foraged clover (white and red) dandilions (she adores those!) and some broad leaf plantain. We have lots of blooming weeds right now. I will have to go through some pictures to figure out which are safe for her and try to gather some seeds for the winter months. I have a tree that is called a "profusion crab apple" that drops these little berries (not apples!) that the wild birds love. She tried tasting those yesterday and I think she actually did eat a few. They are small, red and hard right now, in the fall season they will get soft and more like a raisin. I am hoping those are okay. Any guess as to how old she is? Her shell is about 4.2 inches in length. I'm now off to read more about diet. Thanks to all for the links! I have bookmarked all of them! (BTW--pellets are now in the trash! )

23-07-2007, 01:46 PM	#9
chelonaki Member Incubating Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern United Kingdom Posts: 147	PS additions to cucculent families in that list: "(Note from chelonaki: the cactuses and succulents are the families: Aloe, Echeveria, Graptoveria, Kalanchoe, Lampranthus, Aeonium, Agave and Crassula) Personally, I will put up an indoor table 6' x' 6' and an outdoor 6' x 8' . The possibly biggest you can make it the better for the tortoise. Tortoises need space: the mediteraneans travell from 1/2 mile to many miles a day in the wild (depening on the temperature/season). You can build a temporary (large) outdoor home by just making some soroundings (1' high) in the garden and a netting on the top to protect her from animals, and keep her there most of the day until you build the indoor one. Then, you can make a proper outdoor one. It will be much easier for you if you planted you own plants, unless you are a botanist Fruit should only be given as a very occasional treet to meds. You will find all info on nutrition on those links. I am sure the experts here will be able to tell you about her age, health etc! (Most of SW will not agree with that but, you could take-save one more Horsfield from that shop (horrible!!) to keep your current one company... You should also report that shop the the relevant authorities and make sure the torts there go to tortoise rescue places of UK) __________________ chelonaki

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