Getting food ready for first Tort

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by pagan queen

I don't use UV lighting either and find my torts are fine, with smooth growth, healthy appetites and all round general good health. I use supplements and feed weeds, as well as pellets. If feeding pellets one or two days a week there is no need to use supplements on those days as the pellets contain D3.

Oh yes i forgot tortoise's in the wild que up for there vit's everyday wearing uv blocker !!!! , pmsl

[gwenq]

Originally Posted by TillyTortoise

I take it Sam is a Hermanns? If so his ideal weight is 554g

Yes he is. I thought he was feeling a bit heavy!! Diet for him then!!!

[houseofcutler]

Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan

My own view about UVB is a bit different to some of those above and I wouldn't advise anyone to try and raise a mediterranean tortoise without any UVB at all. A tortoise on a table in a room is getting 0 UVB unless we provide it.

The person Houseofcutler quoted is using a mixture of supplements and artificial UVB. Their view is that the lamps might be worn out so I'll supplement as well. That regime seems to me unwise - the keeper doesn't know if there is any artificial UVB at all and they are supplementing anyway? Surely it must be best to do one or the other. Either knowingly provide a suitable amount of UVB with suitable lamps OR provide Vit D in a supplement instead, dosing at the required rate for the animal in question.

The idea that UVB lamps are unreliable, dodgy and might be worn out is an outdated one. If you get one of the latest lamps you know how much UVB is coming off it and for how long. And they cost about £30 providing heat and bright light and UVB. OK for £5 you can have a halogen lamp that provides some fuzzy dull yellow light and some heat.
Mediterranean tortoises are used to very bright light.

One advantage that decent UVB and heat lamps have over supplementation is that the heat is provided at the same time as the UVB which enables the tortoise to metabolise calcium. With a supplement the Vit D is just in the bloodstream the whole time.

The Vit D dosing instructions on supplements are frankly a joke. e.g. "blow a small pinch of product in the general direction of some leaves and serve". The supplement is basically useless a few months after opening the packet, and the smallest quantity offerd for sale would supplement a single tortoise for years. There are a lot of badly supplemented tortoises out there!

I agree no UVB at all would obviously be bad - As i have said I hope the tortoise can be outside, under the real sun as much as weather allows.

I've seen photos of this breeders torts old and new and they all look great with smooth shells and happy faces (not that happy faces probably counts for much)

I have obviously ruffled some feathers, or scales, with my plan to not use a UVB. I was put off UVB after reading lots of threads on this forum that mentioned a range of potential problems with various products, but these were accompanied by reports from people who had no issues with the same product. This appeared to present me with a potentially very expensive game of pot luck.

I do above all else want to do the best thing for my torts but have also seen that there is more than one way of doing things. If you can recommend a bulb that is generally (i know there will always be an exception) accepted as being problem free then I will seriously consider using it.

I am still grateful for everyone's opinions

[pagan queen]

Originally Posted by NATURALIS

Oh yes i forgot tortoise's in the wild que up for there vit's everyday wearing uv blocker !!!! , pmsl

I just unblocked you to see your comment, I will now re-block you as I know you are still the same as when I blocked you. Leopards don't change their spots eh, silly me. It would help if what you say was relevant and/or made sense. Oh and the word "there" is not spelt correctly in that context, it should be "Their" as in, belonging to them, the way you spell it it means " over there" and I thought I was the dyslexic one.

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by pagan queen

I just unblocked you to see your comment, I will now re-block you as I know you are still the same as when I blocked you. Leopards don't change their spots eh, silly me. It would help if what you say was relevant and/or made sense. Oh and the word "there" is not spelt correctly in that context, it should be "Their" as in, belonging to them, the way you spell it it means " over there" and I thought I was the dyslexic one.

no it's correct how i wrote it , the vit's don't belong to them until it's been taken , to take it they have to go over there to get it , keep up !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Helen M]

Originally Posted by pagan queen

Different people have different ways. If they work there isn't a problem.

Big if there though...

The evidence on the effectiveness of supplements especially for D3 just isn't there. Dangerous advice to be telling the OP that withholding UV lighting is an acceptable thing to do. Especially when you don't know if the torts are going to have access to summer sun or not.

Why not allow the animal to regulate its own UV intake then potentially kill them with an overdose of vitamin D?

Helen x

[TillyTortoise]

Originally Posted by gwenq

Yes he is. I thought he was feeling a bit heavy!! Diet for him then!!!

Whats 50g between friends?

[NATURALIS]

Originally Posted by Helen M

Big if there though...

The evidence on the effectiveness of supplements especially for D3 just isn't there. Dangerous advice to be telling the OP that withholding UV lighting is an acceptable thing to do. Especially when you don't know if the torts are going to have access to summer sun or not.

Why not allow the animal to regulate its own UV intake then potentially kill them with an overdose of vitamin D?

Helen x

good advice here !!!!!

[pagan queen]

The OP had already made up his own mind before I offered him my experience. If you have read the whole thread you would have known that and not jumped on me quite so quickly.

Originally Posted by Helen M

Big if there though...

The evidence on the effectiveness of supplements especially for D3 just isn't there. Dangerous advice to be telling the OP that withholding UV lighting is an acceptable thing to do. Especially when you don't know if the torts are going to have access to summer sun or not.

Why not allow the animal to regulate its own UV intake then potentially kill them with an overdose of vitamin D?

Helen x

[TillyTortoise]

Originally Posted by houseofcutler

I agree no UVB at all would obviously be bad - As i have said I hope the tortoise can be outside, under the real sun as much as weather allows.

I've seen photos of this breeders torts old and new and they all look great with smooth shells and happy faces (not that happy faces probably counts for much)

I have obviously ruffled some feathers, or scales, with my plan to not use a UVB. I was put off UVB after reading lots of threads on this forum that mentioned a range of potential problems with various products, but these were accompanied by reports from people who had no issues with the same product. This appeared to present me with a potentially very expensive game of pot luck.

I do above all else want to do the best thing for my torts but have also seen that there is more than one way of doing things. If you can recommend a bulb that is generally (i know there will always be an exception) accepted as being problem free then I will seriously consider using it.

I am still grateful for everyone's opinions

I recommend the Arcadia D3 combined Heat and UV. I have no problems with mine. If there is ever a problem with any Arcadia product they are only happy to help