Growing too fast? - Page 2

yagyujubei · 11-07-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrus

Seems to have worked well...but I can't help being uncomfortable with all that weight gain in such a short space of time...

I feel, that in the wild they are just surviving. 5000 yaers ago, the climate in Africa was much wetter, almost tropical. I guess the question is what climate did they elvolve for? Tropics of the past, or arid conditions now. I'm sure that when conditions were more lush, they ate much better than today, and grew much faster. I should also add that these are South African leopards. I have heard yea and nay re:if they grow faster than babcocki. Time will tell if I am right or wrong I suppose. They get no supplements other than calcium carbonate free choice. I think by their second birthday, they will be 7 - 8".

NATURALIS · 11-07-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yagyujubei

I feel, that in the wild they are just surviving. 5000 yaers ago, the climate in Africa was much wetter, almost tropical. I guess the question is what climate did they elvolve for? Tropics of the past, or arid conditions now. I'm sure that when conditions were more lush, they ate much better than today, and grew much faster. I should also add that these are South African leopards. I have heard yea and nay re:if they grow faster than babcocki. Time will tell if I am right or wrong I suppose. They get no supplements other than calcium carbonate free choice. I think by their second birthday, they will be 7 - 8".

i dont really see how this is valid , how can you compare a tortoise that lived 5000 years ago with one from today !, surely during all that time they have evolved through the last 5000 years and adapted like every other animal on the planet.
How can you compare the polar bear to the grizzly ? , but they both started out the same animal

tort two · 11-07-2011, 11:22 PM

Well i think as long as you are invested of the well being of your torts and they remain healthy,then your doing the best you can,lovely lookin torts by the way.Leopards that have grown faster than others all seem to lost a lot of their black colouration as we have seen on here a few times,has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

HLogic · 14-07-2011, 10:41 PM

5K years ago in Northern Africa it was more 'tropical', probably closer to temperate than tropical though. The Southern hemisphere was actually colder contributing to an overall colder average global temperature. 5K years may be enough time for some adaptation to occur but not sufficient to substantially effect them in evolutionary terms.

As it turns out, 5K years ago there were crocs and hippopotomi(uses?) in the lakes formed in the Sahara. They did not adapt, they died, when the current conditions arrived...

I believe rapid growth in torts *could* be detrimental but only time will tell. We don't have enough evidence one way or another to state fact. Given another 50 years, we may... and I may be posting that it is the *best* thing for your tort!

Habranthus · 15-07-2011, 12:32 AM

You're right, at least in terms of 5000 years not being a long time for evolutionary change. It's an incredibly complex process which i remember a lot of my uni professors admitted they didn't understand fully. It's also difficult to predict how animals will adapt (and have adapted) to changes. Just because a species still exists thousands of years after major environmental change doesn't necessarily mean they have adapted, rather that being able to survive their new environment was already part of their repertoire. The problem is we really don't know whether you're right and they would be happier with the environment of 5000 years ago or the one they currently encounter in the wild. Chances are south africa has changed several times since leopard torts evolved. They do look healthier than loads of leopard torts I've seen - will be interesting to see how they do in the future.

herpderp · 19-07-2011, 11:55 AM

Overfeeding can cause the shell to split and kill them, it happens in captivity as people can treat reptiles like mammals and overfeed them fatty and sugary foods but forgetting they dont tend to exercise much

onarock · 20-07-2011, 05:25 AM

10.5 months and 440g. Not exactly what I would call fast growth for a p.pardalis. Nice looking tortoise though, little concerned about the color, but nice looking tortoise

EJ · 20-07-2011, 01:07 PM

Nice looking tortoise.

Evie · 20-07-2011, 01:41 PM

Try and stop mine eating !!!

I would have to keep them in their enclosure all day.

My last rehomer was only 440 gms when I got her - I will have had her 3 years in October - she is 6.4 kgms now.

They are beautiful pictures.

yagyujubei · 29-02-2012, 02:36 PM

I thought that I would give an update. Hrothgar, the second one in my original pics is continuing to grow at a phenominal rate. Currently, he is 7 1/4"scl, and 1400g.

Ragnar is 6 //4"scl, and 840g. Both were born Aug/2010

Not all are growing at such a rate, I have several the same age at 350 to 500g.

15-07-2011, 12:32 AM	#15
Habranthus Member Incubating Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 140	You're right, at least in terms of 5000 years not being a long time for evolutionary change. It's an incredibly complex process which i remember a lot of my uni professors admitted they didn't understand fully. It's also difficult to predict how animals will adapt (and have adapted) to changes. Just because a species still exists thousands of years after major environmental change doesn't necessarily mean they have adapted, rather that being able to survive their new environment was already part of their repertoire. The problem is we really don't know whether you're right and they would be happier with the environment of 5000 years ago or the one they currently encounter in the wild. Chances are south africa has changed several times since leopard torts evolved. They do look healthier than loads of leopard torts I've seen - will be interesting to see how they do in the future. __________________ 0.0.4 Testudo hermanni hermanni

20-07-2011, 01:07 PM	#18
EJ Senior Member Adult Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 8,277	Nice looking tortoise. __________________ Ed Tortoise Keerpers @ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tortoise_Keepers and http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/284442591651347/ Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

11-07-2011, 11:22 PM	#13
tort two Member Hatched Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: dublin Ireland Posts: 266	Well i think as long as you are invested of the well being of your torts and they remain healthy,then your doing the best you can,lovely lookin torts by the way.Leopards that have grown faster than others all seem to lost a lot of their black colouration as we have seen on here a few times,has anyone else noticed this or is it just me?

14-07-2011, 10:41 PM	#14
HLogic Junior Member Egg Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: South Florida, USA Posts: 8	5K years ago in Northern Africa it was more 'tropical', probably closer to temperate than tropical though. The Southern hemisphere was actually colder contributing to an overall colder average global temperature. 5K years may be enough time for some adaptation to occur but not sufficient to substantially effect them in evolutionary terms. As it turns out, 5K years ago there were crocs and hippopotomi(uses?) in the lakes formed in the Sahara. They did not adapt, they died, when the current conditions arrived... I believe rapid growth in torts could be detrimental but only time will tell. We don't have enough evidence one way or another to state fact. Given another 50 years, we may... and I may be posting that it is the best thing for your tort!

19-07-2011, 11:55 AM	#16
herpderp Junior Member Egg Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 44	Overfeeding can cause the shell to split and kill them, it happens in captivity as people can treat reptiles like mammals and overfeed them fatty and sugary foods but forgetting they dont tend to exercise much

20-07-2011, 05:25 AM	#17
onarock Member Hatched Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 327	10.5 months and 440g. Not exactly what I would call fast growth for a p.pardalis. Nice looking tortoise though, little concerned about the color, but nice looking tortoise

20-07-2011, 01:41 PM	#19
Evie Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Southampton Posts: 1,752	Try and stop mine eating !!! I would have to keep them in their enclosure all day. My last rehomer was only 440 gms when I got her - I will have had her 3 years in October - she is 6.4 kgms now. They are beautiful pictures.

29-02-2012, 02:36 PM	#20
yagyujubei Member Incubating Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Homerville, Ohio, USA Posts: 119	I thought that I would give an update. Hrothgar, the second one in my original pics is continuing to grow at a phenominal rate. Currently, he is 7 1/4"scl, and 1400g. Ragnar is 6 //4"scl, and 840g. Both were born Aug/2010 Not all are growing at such a rate, I have several the same age at 350 to 500g.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)