Surely that's not right?!! - Page 2

boost-boy74 · 22-09-2009, 12:37 PM

more pics of stars can be seen here - a majority of the pics all show stars with pyramiding.......

which is apparantley normal.

http://startortoises.net/

**egyptiandan64** · 22-09-2009, 01:27 PM

Than how do you account for all the smooth or fairly smooth tortoises in the link you posted.

I agree Marie that a pyramided tortoise is going to have those problems you listed. So in all likelyhood it would shorten a tortoises life to be pyramided.

Danny

boost-boy74 · 22-09-2009, 07:49 PM

that i do not know

EJ · 22-09-2009, 08:32 PM

I'm curious as to how you jump to this conclusion? If you had said that they might have those problems... that would be acceptable.

Are you saying that your stars have health problems?

Quote:

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

I agree Marie that a pyramided tortoise is going to have those problems you listed. So in all likelyhood it would shorten a tortoises life to be pyramided.

Danny

Star · 23-09-2009, 03:08 AM

http://africantortoise.com/_sulcatadiet2.pdf

Any comments on this study?

EJ · 23-09-2009, 03:14 AM

If you do a search on this topic in this forum... you'll find lots of comments on that study.

There are many who are still hanging on to the idea that protein or over feeding is the cause... they just don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

http://africantortoise.com/_sulcatadiet2.pdf

Any comments on this study?

Star · 23-09-2009, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

If you do a search on this topic in this forum... you'll find lots of comments on that study.

There are many who are still hanging on to the idea that protein or over feeding is the cause... they just don't get it.

Why do you think that is??

Star · 23-09-2009, 03:29 AM

As you have said previously..........would you base it on word of mouth or more leadership?

EJ · 23-09-2009, 03:33 AM

Definately leadership... leading to word of mouth. It's kind of a disease kind of thing.

I don't like to use the phrase 'sheep' but at the same time I understand that a new keeper has very limited resources... if they key onto a single resourse... I can't blame them.

The net is kind of balancing that. If they do their research they will find that it is not a cut and dry issue and there is not a single 'cause' but there is a major cause.

Most folks want a single answer... and certain organizations are willing to provide that... even if they are wrong... and can't admit it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

As you have said previously..........would you base it on word of mouth or more leadership?

Star · 23-09-2009, 04:03 AM

Agreed..

From experience....when your out of your depth, and during the in between stage of gathering information, you do rely on others in a similar position as yourself, but with additional knowledge, to gain advice from...........but also as said, it can be a leadership/hierarchy following and advice can then become warped or be bias.

It would probably be more beneficial for advice to be offered in research format, so that people can find papers and make educated choices based on the evidence at hand (research is definitely the key)

However, saying this, I have personally found it extremely hard to research certain aspects that I find intriguing.........there also seems to be a shortage on recent studies, covering many of the aspects highlighted by the members here.....I for one have struggled to find anything with substance on RNS and the quarantining..........is quarantine working, if so, for how long, and if even after some time with the quarantine processes, are they pointless if symptoms reappear while the tortoise has passed the initial quarantine period and been mixed with a group.....? What is the extent of damage caused by the RNS after contracting it, is it better advised never to mix a tortoise that has had RNS?..........The long term effects seem to be mentioned more than the other leading factors.

Its a shame that with such a wide source of Tortoise owners, that some form of research/evidence gathering, couldn't be implemented and gathered right here..........simple questions with simple answers........obviously some would need more detail, but an opportunity seems to be missed here..

It would definitely highlight many contributing factors and even if it wasn't seen as an appropriate methods for research, it would definitely be of some benefit

22-09-2009, 12:37 PM	#11
boost-boy74 Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Norfolk Posts: 112	more pics of stars can be seen here - a majority of the pics all show stars with pyramiding....... which is apparantley normal. http://startortoises.net/ __________________ 1.1.0 lepoards 0.0.4 spur thigh 1.1.0 redfooted 0.0.3 sulcata 1.1.0 bosc monitor lizard 4.8.x leos 0.0.1 corn snake - 0.0.1 royal python coming soon

22-09-2009, 01:27 PM	#12
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Than how do you account for all the smooth or fairly smooth tortoises in the link you posted. I agree Marie that a pyramided tortoise is going to have those problems you listed. So in all likelyhood it would shorten a tortoises life to be pyramided. Danny __________________

22-09-2009, 07:49 PM	#13
boost-boy74 Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Norfolk Posts: 112	that i do not know __________________ 1.1.0 lepoards 0.0.4 spur thigh 1.1.0 redfooted 0.0.3 sulcata 1.1.0 bosc monitor lizard 4.8.x leos 0.0.1 corn snake - 0.0.1 royal python coming soon

23-09-2009, 03:08 AM	#15
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	http://africantortoise.com/_sulcatadiet2.pdf Any comments on this study? __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

23-09-2009, 03:29 AM	#18
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	As you have said previously..........would you base it on word of mouth or more leadership? __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

23-09-2009, 04:03 AM	#20
Star Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: With My Tortoises Posts: 1,495	Agreed.. From experience....when your out of your depth, and during the in between stage of gathering information, you do rely on others in a similar position as yourself, but with additional knowledge, to gain advice from...........but also as said, it can be a leadership/hierarchy following and advice can then become warped or be bias. It would probably be more beneficial for advice to be offered in research format, so that people can find papers and make educated choices based on the evidence at hand (research is definitely the key) However, saying this, I have personally found it extremely hard to research certain aspects that I find intriguing.........there also seems to be a shortage on recent studies, covering many of the aspects highlighted by the members here.....I for one have struggled to find anything with substance on RNS and the quarantining..........is quarantine working, if so, for how long, and if even after some time with the quarantine processes, are they pointless if symptoms reappear while the tortoise has passed the initial quarantine period and been mixed with a group.....? What is the extent of damage caused by the RNS after contracting it, is it better advised never to mix a tortoise that has had RNS?..........The long term effects seem to be mentioned more than the other leading factors. Its a shame that with such a wide source of Tortoise owners, that some form of research/evidence gathering, couldn't be implemented and gathered right here..........simple questions with simple answers........obviously some would need more detail, but an opportunity seems to be missed here.. It would definitely highlight many contributing factors and even if it wasn't seen as an appropriate methods for research, it would definitely be of some benefit __________________ 1.1./. Amazing kids 0.1./. Gorgeous Malamute 0.1./. Beautiful Cat 0.5.0. Playful T.H.H / T.H.B 11 Tropical Fish 1 Bearded Lizard Lots of Aspirin Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. ~Zen Buddhist Proverb

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