Hatchling growth and predation. - Page 7

Mighty_Quinn · 07-08-2013, 03:24 PM

My little brain cogs are ticking away with a few things after following this thread and so im realising the importance of the humidity within the tables(especially at night) as Quinn over the last two months has been kept in his table with beech chips as i just didnt seem to get time to go to the shop to get more coco coir, he was being bathed every 2 or three nights but over the last month i've noticed his urates are grainy and not as white as they used to be when he was in the coco coir that i was keeping damp and bathing him every other night so im thinking he must have been keeping dehydrated via the coco coir humidity but the beech chips would have been making him 'dry out'.......

burnt toast · 07-08-2013, 05:26 PM

Just caught up on last few posts & its very interesting.

I have Rambo who as a hatchling didn't grow. She remained at 15 grams for nearly the first two years of her life. No matter how much she ate she couldn't seem to absorb the goodness/calories from her food. I eventually got lucky & discovered Abidec & after intensive soaking & lots of TLC she got over it & has grown. The most likely suggested cause for her "hatchling failure syndrome" was suggested to be dehydration - (which the breeder I got her from went mad about, said I was trying to say she had caused it) BUT I kept Rambo on Hemp at that time because that's what the breeder recommended & actually gave me some of to take away. I also note that that's the area she liked to sleep in ( I started to add areas of different substrate) The others liked soil, Rambo liked Hemp. I wonder if Rambo could have dehydrated overnight? She was 15 grams ( the other two were 48 & 76) I soaked all of them everyday without fail?

pagan queen · 07-08-2013, 05:59 PM

The humidity or lack thereof, could explain why 2 torts, all kept on the same enclosure, fed the same food and exposed to the same UV and supplements can grow very differently. One chooses to sleep in a damp area while the other chooses the dry area.

rocio · 10-08-2013, 09:16 PM

Here in Spain, the local tortoises suffer predation from, I believe, 3 main sources:
Wild boar
Man
Foxes
Dogs
Traffic
Not necessarily in that order.
Wild boar will crunch up any size of tortoise, and are proving to be a real menace to the tortoise population here-----so size doesn't really matter in some cases!Green food is abundant here in spring then disappears by the end of May and there is then only mainly dry leaves and seeds available and great heat. Growth starts again in October, if it has rained by then. But over the past 3 years or so, things have changed and we have had much less rain that in the past and wild habitat food has decreased due to this drought. Times they are a changing!

**egyptiandan64** · 10-08-2013, 11:56 PM

Thats just adult predators. Here's a list of predators of hatchlings/juveniles
Cinereous Vulture
Golden Eagle
Lesser Spotted Eagle
Bearded Vulture
White-tailed Eagle
Egyptian Vulture
Common Raven
Hooded Crow
Carrion Crow
Rook
Eurasian Jay
Magpie
Caspian Gull
Crested Porcupine
Brown Rat
Black Rat
Wood Mouse
Beech Martin
European Badger
Least Weasel
Ferret
Golden Jackal
Domesticated Dog
Red Fox
Brown Bear
Wild Boar
and some snakes
You'd have to add monitor lizards if you talked about North Africa and the Middle East.

Danny

Suze65 · 11-08-2013, 07:16 AM

It's a wonder any of them survive.

**egyptiandan64** · 11-08-2013, 02:48 PM

Thats the thing very few do survive Suze

In most places the average loss of nests (eggs) is over 50%, the average loss in the first 2 years is 48% and the average loss from 3 to 9 years is 12% (a year) and drops to between 9 and 12% for adult losses every year on average.

Danny

Merlin M · 11-08-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egyptiandan64

Thats the thing very few do survive Suze

In most places the average loss of nests (eggs) is over 50%, the average loss in the first 2 years is 48% and the average loss from 3 to 9 years is 12% (a year) and drops to between 9 and 12% for adult losses every year on average.

Danny

Wow not great odds...

**egyptiandan64** · 11-08-2013, 03:07 PM

They do though get better in year 3 (down from 24% a year to 12% a year).

Danny

Gordon · 11-08-2013, 03:08 PM

You missed one off Danny MAN

07-08-2013, 03:24 PM	#61
Mighty_Quinn Member Hatchling Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: East Scotland Posts: 500	My little brain cogs are ticking away with a few things after following this thread and so im realising the importance of the humidity within the tables(especially at night) as Quinn over the last two months has been kept in his table with beech chips as i just didnt seem to get time to go to the shop to get more coco coir, he was being bathed every 2 or three nights but over the last month i've noticed his urates are grainy and not as white as they used to be when he was in the coco coir that i was keeping damp and bathing him every other night so im thinking he must have been keeping dehydrated via the coco coir humidity but the beech chips would have been making him 'dry out'....... __________________

07-08-2013, 05:59 PM	#63
pagan queen Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Kent Posts: 6,073	The humidity or lack thereof, could explain why 2 torts, all kept on the same enclosure, fed the same food and exposed to the same UV and supplements can grow very differently. One chooses to sleep in a damp area while the other chooses the dry area. __________________ 1.0.1 TG Ibera 1.0.0 Chinese Frise dog 0.1.0 African Grey Parrot 0.1.0 Hahns Macaw 0.1.0 Pearly Conure 0.2.0 Guinea Pigs 0.2.0 Chickens 1.0.0 Bearded Dragon 7.4.0 Budgies 1.1.0 Cockatiels 1.3 Kids 1 Husband

10-08-2013, 11:56 PM	#65
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Thats just adult predators. Here's a list of predators of hatchlings/juveniles Cinereous Vulture Golden Eagle Lesser Spotted Eagle Bearded Vulture White-tailed Eagle Egyptian Vulture Common Raven Hooded Crow Carrion Crow Rook Eurasian Jay Magpie Caspian Gull Crested Porcupine Brown Rat Black Rat Wood Mouse Beech Martin European Badger Least Weasel Ferret Golden Jackal Domesticated Dog Red Fox Brown Bear Wild Boar and some snakes You'd have to add monitor lizards if you talked about North Africa and the Middle East. Danny __________________

11-08-2013, 07:16 AM	#66
Suze65 Senior Member Adult Join Date: May 2012 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 6,769	It's a wonder any of them survive. __________________ Suze. 3 THB, Sammy, Jemima, & Phoebe 7 Marginated, Tabitha, Ptolome, Tatiana, Noah,Lottey, Lulu & Poppy 1 TGG (Emma) RIP Feb 2012

11-08-2013, 02:48 PM	#67
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	Thats the thing very few do survive Suze In most places the average loss of nests (eggs) is over 50%, the average loss in the first 2 years is 48% and the average loss from 3 to 9 years is 12% (a year) and drops to between 9 and 12% for adult losses every year on average. Danny __________________

07-08-2013, 05:26 PM	#62
burnt toast Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,245	Just caught up on last few posts & its very interesting. I have Rambo who as a hatchling didn't grow. She remained at 15 grams for nearly the first two years of her life. No matter how much she ate she couldn't seem to absorb the goodness/calories from her food. I eventually got lucky & discovered Abidec & after intensive soaking & lots of TLC she got over it & has grown. The most likely suggested cause for her "hatchling failure syndrome" was suggested to be dehydration - (which the breeder I got her from went mad about, said I was trying to say she had caused it) BUT I kept Rambo on Hemp at that time because that's what the breeder recommended & actually gave me some of to take away. I also note that that's the area she liked to sleep in ( I started to add areas of different substrate) The others liked soil, Rambo liked Hemp. I wonder if Rambo could have dehydrated overnight? She was 15 grams ( the other two were 48 & 76) I soaked all of them everyday without fail?

10-08-2013, 09:16 PM	#64
rocio Member Hatchling Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 595	Here in Spain, the local tortoises suffer predation from, I believe, 3 main sources: Wild boar Man Foxes Dogs Traffic Not necessarily in that order. Wild boar will crunch up any size of tortoise, and are proving to be a real menace to the tortoise population here-----so size doesn't really matter in some cases!Green food is abundant here in spring then disappears by the end of May and there is then only mainly dry leaves and seeds available and great heat. Growth starts again in October, if it has rained by then. But over the past 3 years or so, things have changed and we have had much less rain that in the past and wild habitat food has decreased due to this drought. Times they are a changing!

11-08-2013, 03:07 PM	#69
egyptiandan64 Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: USA Posts: 14,171	They do though get better in year 3 (down from 24% a year to 12% a year). Danny __________________

11-08-2013, 03:08 PM	#70
Gordon Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 5,675	You missed one off Danny MAN

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