HELP , sick yearling Spur thighs?.

[Jilly]

Hello everyone, I hope I'm in the right place for help. We bought a pair of spur Thighed torts in November 14 that were hatched in May/June 14 so they are a year old. They were happy healthy and eating loads. They lived in an indoor tort house with a megaray lamp & had a diet of wild weeds, dried weeds, some lettuce varieties, occasional fruit, dark leafy greens, dandelions & pansies, with Nutrobal & calcium supplements. We did not hibernate them over winter as I misunderstood that baby tortoises needed to, but they remained active and behaved normally throughout. However , In the last couple of weeks they both started to wake up late & go to bed early, reducing their daylight hours & their appetites. Then one day 1 of them didn't wake up at all, quickly followed by the other 1. They have been in this state for the last 6 days despite my efforts to rouse them by taking them out of their beds & blocking off their sleeping area & putting the whole tortoise house outside in the sun, they are resisting and continually returning to 'sleep' mode. I am desperately hoping this is a temporary glitch caused by the fact they didn't hibernate in the winter and their body clocks are telling them they need to, despite it being summer, however could it be anything more serious or sinister? They don't have any signs of illness ie no runny noses/eyes etc or obvious ailments, they weigh around 100g & are approx 6-7cm long, 6cm wide. I can't seem to find any references to this kind of behaviour & am looking for some advice as to what to do, should I leave them as they are, or continue to forcibly try to rouse them? Can anyone tell me exactly what is happening?.. Very concerned about the little critters.... Thanks in advance, Jill

[vikki]

Hi Jilly. I am a newbie too so not really placed to answer your questions. a few things the more experienced people may need to know:-
Are you bathing them - how often?
What are your temperatures- under lamp/cool end etc.
What substrate are you using?
Have they ever been checked for worms or been wormed?
Have you changed the bulb at all (could uv be low?)
Has anything changed in their set up/routine?
Hopefully you can get some more advice soon but worth remembering that if you are very concerned it is worth getting them checked by a vet who is experienced with tortoises Good luck and let us know how they are doing.
Vikki

[Jilly]

Thanks Vikki for those thoughts- nothing has changed in their routine, heatlamp temp is around 30degrees hottest & 20 degrees cooler areas, bulb ok, baths every other week but don't seem to like it, no sign of worms but haven't been wormed- how do I check?
Substrate is soil/ gravel/stones, they do have a shallow water dish although ignore it completely & I have never seen them drink! Unfortunately no tortoise-expert vet locally, so I thought the wealth of knowledge on this site would hopefully come up with an answer.

Jill

[pagan queen]

Hi Jilly, as Vikki has said, if you can give us the info she has listed we may be able to pinpoint the problem.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Jilly

Hello everyone, I hope I'm in the right place for help. We bought a pair of spur Thighed torts in November 14 that were hatched in May/June 14 so they are a year old. They were happy healthy and eating loads. They lived in an indoor tort house with a megaray lamp & had a diet of wild weeds, dried weeds, some lettuce varieties, occasional fruit, dark leafy greens, dandelions & pansies, with Nutrobal & calcium supplements. We did not hibernate them over winter as I misunderstood that baby tortoises needed to, but they remained active and behaved normally throughout. However , In the last couple of weeks they both started to wake up late & go to bed early, reducing their daylight hours & their appetites. Then one day 1 of them didn't wake up at all, quickly followed by the other 1. They have been in this state for the last 6 days despite my efforts to rouse them by taking them out of their beds & blocking off their sleeping area & putting the whole tortoise house outside in the sun, they are resisting and continually returning to 'sleep' mode. I am desperately hoping this is a temporary glitch caused by the fact they didn't hibernate in the winter and their body clocks are telling them they need to, despite it being summer, however could it be anything more serious or sinister? They don't have any signs of illness ie no runny noses/eyes etc or obvious ailments, they weigh around 100g & are approx 6-7cm long, 6cm wide. I can't seem to find any references to this kind of behaviour & am looking for some advice as to what to do, should I leave them as they are, or continue to forcibly try to rouse them? Can anyone tell me exactly what is happening?.. Very concerned about the little critters.... Thanks in advance, Jill

It could be a lot of things, as has been said we need more info.
It could be its too hot.
Not enough uv and bright light.
Dehydration.
Are their noses dry?
Are they gaping?
Are their eyes bright and shiny?
If any of the last three then you need to get them to a tortoise vet.
First three and its just husbandry.
Where did you get your tortoises from?

[CherryBrandy]

Jilly & torts welcome. Will await more details but initial observation is it could be too hot where they are located......in front of a window perhaps? -sun plus heat lamp could mean v hot and they are aestivating (estivating). you mention putting the whole house in the sun - little ones heat up v v quickly , cool down vv quickly. Do you know temps? might be worth investing in an IR thermometer /general greenhouse thermometer. And perhaps weigh them that is always a good indicator of ill health.

[Jilly]

Thanks so much everyone for trying to help.... To answer some more of your questions - the table has been kept exclusively indoors, not near a radiator or other heat source, as far as I know the MegaRay 100w lamp is working fine (how would I measure the UV output ? ) and the temp reading is 30-32degrees directly underneath it& around 20deg at the other end. ( I am trying to add pics but can't work out how at the moment!) . Their skin looks a little dry but no weeping noses or eyes, they weigh 75g & 100g ( one has always eaten more than the other). I only put the Tort house outside once to see if it would make a difference in keeping them awake (they still had a covered shade area) but it didn't & within 30 mins they had retreated back into the sleeping area and did not come back out. They are not gaping, their eyes seem ok when they are open but they clearly look asleep at the moment with eyes closed. I have never seen them drink but assume they would have if they needed to? They came from a breeder Tom Palmer near Northampton. I will see if I can work out how to add photos, and find a local vet with expertise, in the meantime any more ideas? Jilly

[Jilly]

Seems I am utterly hopeless at everything, I can't work out how to post pictures of the set up and torts,;can I email them to someone instead? I have an ipad which didn't want to play, and Windows 8 on a PC, but cant do it on either, I'm so sorry,

Jilly

[Wyannis]

Hi Jilly and welcome to the forum. I'm no expert either but I would say your basking spot is a little on the cool side. Try uping it to 32 degrees and see if that makes a difference. They need a lot of light too so if your table is large or in a darkish corner it might be worth adding another light to brighten things up.

[sandy]

Originally Posted by Jilly

Thanks so much everyone for trying to help.... To answer some more of your questions - the table has been kept exclusively indoors, not near a radiator or other heat source, as far as I know the MegaRay 100w lamp is working fine (how would I measure the UV output ? ) and the temp reading is 30-32degrees directly underneath it& around 20deg at the other end. ( I am trying to add pics but can't work out how at the moment!) . Their skin looks a little dry but no weeping noses or eyes, they weigh 75g & 100g ( one has always eaten more than the other). I only put the Tort house outside once to see if it would make a difference in keeping them awake (they still had a covered shade area) but it didn't & within 30 mins they had retreated back into the sleeping area and did not come back out. They are not gaping, their eyes seem ok when they are open but they clearly look asleep at the moment with eyes closed. I have never seen them drink but assume they would have if they needed to? They came from a breeder Tom Palmer near Northampton. I will see if I can work out how to add photos, and find a local vet with expertise, in the meantime any more ideas? Jilly

Are you bathing them, this is really needed as small tortoises when they have the same temps all the time, dehydrate very quickly. So bathing twice a day for a week then every other day, for 20mins is needed. Using rain water helps.
You need something like a photobucket account to be able to post pictures on here.
This time of the year they should be outside 24/7 if possible, if not they should be out every day.