Identification help please!

23-05-2008, 10:49 AM

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone could help identify the sub-species of these two Hermanns tortoises? I'd never really thought about what they may be, they are both from members of my family who breed tortoises, just as pets so only now and again when they know there'll be other members of the family who will home them!! I know their parents would have been wild caught as both sets are probably in their 50's at a guess. Looking at all the different species on this site it just got me wondering about these two!

Apologies if the pictures are too big. They've also come out a very funny colour as both are brighter in the "shell" than they appear, I think I must have done something odd on the camera settings

I didn't want to take any more as they both huffed off after being turned upside down!

Harriet:

Houdini:

Just to note, if they look pink at all underneath this is due to a break-in with our strawberry plants the other day though most has washed off.

Anyone who saw my post on the site will know this caused great consternation when first spotted!!

Thanks in advance for your help.

70ridgeway · 23-05-2008, 10:53 AM

im only making a guess Testudo hermanni boettgeri am i right

swad1000 · 23-05-2008, 10:55 AM

I think THB as well, I'm certain they aren't Testudo hermanni hermanni.

23-05-2008, 11:11 AM

Thanks very much,

that was what I had assumed from reading elsewhere but it was a complete guess!

Alex · 23-05-2008, 11:14 AM

Im still learnig with this species

but I reckon the first one might be t.h.hercegovinensis because the pectoral scute is sort of u shaped, but im not sure

Second one T.h.b

Alex

23-05-2008, 12:17 PM

Thanks for that,

I hadn't noticed the different pectoral scutes before and haven't heard of t.h.hercegovinensis, where are they from originally? Actually, I've just found a post noting the differences so I'll have a look. Could these subspecies breed or is it best not to let them? The inguinal scutes on both look like a THB though perhaps?

bettyboop · 23-05-2008, 12:46 PM

Hi
I dont know what they are BUT they are great

Alex · 23-05-2008, 03:16 PM

This will show you where they are from

http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/...ic.php?t=16697

Its best not to breed different sub species together, and both these sub species are readily available in this country so you could always find them companions. I think Dan commented about a group which was a mix of the two subspecies and when they were separated breeding success significantly increased.

66% of the time t.h.hercegovinensis don't have inguinal scutes, I couldn't see in the photos but if they have them they probably are t.h.b, im pretty sure the second is t.h.b and the first im gunna have to sit on the wall now and say it may be hercegovinensis or boettgeri

Im still learning with this species im afraid but Egyptian Dan will probably be on later and im sure he wil know.
Either way set up is the same for all three

What are their sizes (straight carapace length)?

Alex

23-05-2008, 04:05 PM

Thanks Alex, I may try and take some more pictures later on if that would help in identification. Are there any areas of their shell etc in particular I should try to take to help?

As for sizes, I've only measured her properly, she's 12.5cm, he is slightly bigger I think at maybe 13cm, again, I'll measure him when I bring them in as they're still hiding from me outside at the moment!

Henry-flash · 23-05-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm more inclined to go with them both being T.h.boettgeri. Will see what Dan thinks.

23-05-2008, 10:49 AM	#1
tam Guest Posts: n/a	Identification help please! Hi, I was wondering if anyone could help identify the sub-species of these two Hermanns tortoises? I'd never really thought about what they may be, they are both from members of my family who breed tortoises, just as pets so only now and again when they know there'll be other members of the family who will home them!! I know their parents would have been wild caught as both sets are probably in their 50's at a guess. Looking at all the different species on this site it just got me wondering about these two! Apologies if the pictures are too big. They've also come out a very funny colour as both are brighter in the "shell" than they appear, I think I must have done something odd on the camera settings I didn't want to take any more as they both huffed off after being turned upside down! Harriet: Houdini: Just to note, if they look pink at all underneath this is due to a break-in with our strawberry plants the other day though most has washed off. Anyone who saw my post on the site will know this caused great consternation when first spotted!! Thanks in advance for your help.

23-05-2008, 10:53 AM	#2
70ridgeway Senior Member Adult Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: walsall Posts: 2,345	im only making a guess Testudo hermanni boettgeri am i right __________________ 2 herman,4 iberas,2redfoots, 2 ybs,4dogs,ferrets,racing pigeons,1 bearded dragon,1 pen cooter,3 map turtles, 2 kittens,1 royal python and 6 canarys

23-05-2008, 12:46 PM	#7
bettyboop Member Juvenile Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 931	Hi I dont know what they are BUT they are great __________________ DG. __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

23-05-2008, 04:12 PM	#10
Henry-flash Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cheshire Posts: 9,304	I'm more inclined to go with them both being T.h.boettgeri. Will see what Dan thinks. __________________ Peter Keeping: Testudo hermanni, Testudo graeca (graeca & ibera ), Testudo horsfieldi, Astrochelys radiata, Malacochersus tornieri and Kinixys belliana. The North West Tortoise Group

23-05-2008, 10:55 AM	#3
swad1000 Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,702	I think THB as well, I'm certain they aren't Testudo hermanni hermanni.

23-05-2008, 11:11 AM	#4
tam Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks very much, that was what I had assumed from reading elsewhere but it was a complete guess!

23-05-2008, 11:14 AM	#5
Alex Member Juvenile Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 915	Im still learnig with this species but I reckon the first one might be t.h.hercegovinensis because the pectoral scute is sort of u shaped, but im not sure Second one T.h.b Alex

23-05-2008, 12:17 PM	#6
tam Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for that, I hadn't noticed the different pectoral scutes before and haven't heard of t.h.hercegovinensis, where are they from originally? Actually, I've just found a post noting the differences so I'll have a look. Could these subspecies breed or is it best not to let them? The inguinal scutes on both look like a THB though perhaps?

23-05-2008, 03:16 PM	#8
Alex Member Juvenile Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 915	This will show you where they are from http://forums.shelledwarriors.co.uk/...ic.php?t=16697 Its best not to breed different sub species together, and both these sub species are readily available in this country so you could always find them companions. I think Dan commented about a group which was a mix of the two subspecies and when they were separated breeding success significantly increased. 66% of the time t.h.hercegovinensis don't have inguinal scutes, I couldn't see in the photos but if they have them they probably are t.h.b, im pretty sure the second is t.h.b and the first im gunna have to sit on the wall now and say it may be hercegovinensis or boettgeri Im still learning with this species im afraid but Egyptian Dan will probably be on later and im sure he wil know. Either way set up is the same for all three What are their sizes (straight carapace length)? Alex

23-05-2008, 04:05 PM	#9
tam Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks Alex, I may try and take some more pictures later on if that would help in identification. Are there any areas of their shell etc in particular I should try to take to help? As for sizes, I've only measured her properly, she's 12.5cm, he is slightly bigger I think at maybe 13cm, again, I'll measure him when I bring them in as they're still hiding from me outside at the moment!

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