PLEASE READ - IMPORTED HERMANNI - WARNING!

[KearasNana]

Thanks for posting this important info Pete

[Becks]

Thanks for the warning Pete

[Blaze]

I have a solvinian tortoise. He's healthy, bright and alert. Other than worming, the vet said he's absolutly fine and also, when i said i was quite suprised that my tortoise had come from Solvinia he said it's been common in the last 5 years and that alot of tortoises he's seen have been imports.

If this is a problem that has only just been noted, how is it that for 5 years that imports have been common place?

Is there any way to spot this illness? I'm pretty certain that my little one is fine.

[shelliemavis]

Both ours are from Slovenia. I just hope they'll be ok!

judith

[Lilacarchie]

Hi Zoe,

This virus isn't new, research notes an outbreak in the early 80s (Harper et al 1982).

It has been seen in many torts species, both in private collections and in the wild...testudo hermanni seem to be particularly susceptible (but not exclusively).

1996 Suart McArthur (respected exotics vet from Leeds) wrote a paper following an outbreak that presented to his surgery.
In some species there was a long symptomless incubation period others developed RNS type symptoms taht led to death or euthanasia.

Unfortunately, Slovenia imports are imported in such awful conditions and numbers, that potential contact with an infected tortoises is more likely...I don't know if you have seen the photos of potato sacks crammed full of them

Your vet won't be able to tell if your tort is infected purely by looking at him, as noted above, the incubation period can be symptomless.

Many of us have unwittingly bought Slovenian imports but have learned the hard way in some cases. Fingers crossed all ours will be ok.


Interestingly the Herpes infection and Herps (collective noun for reptiles and amphibians) come from the Greek "Herpeton" meaning to creep and crawl, which is what the reptiles and the virus do...the infection may have been around for longer than any reserchers had thought

[Blaze]

A very informative reply!

My dad made the point to me that the fact he's Solvenian probably means the guy brought him for about £5 and sold him on for £100.. Which clearly means their saftey can't be the most important thing to these sellers..

Is this why alot of people get angery about 'sellers' rather than 'breeders'?

[Tamie Milne]

This is Andy's reply to someone concerned about their import and their hatchling from Sue last year nad asked if he should separate the two:


At present, this seems to be limited to fairly recent imports. I can't give
any specific date, though. All I can say is that those affected that we have
seen (and heard about) were all imported late last year onwards.

There is, unfortunately, no effective treatment if this does turn out to be
the same kind of herpes-virus that we have seen before in tortoises. It is
invariably fatal - though time from first symptoms to death can vary
considerably. Weeks to many months.

I would separate, myself. Just in case.

Andy Highfield

Hannah has asked that I put this on SW for you all

As requested by Sue - I am going to attempt a summary, hopefully
without too much vet bias, apologies if it is too basic or if I repeat
myself. Know alot of you are worried -

Any tortoise infected with Herpes Virus is always a potential threat to
incontact uninfected torts. however, herpes is a viral infection that
is associated with "stress"; i.e the comprise of the immune system.

If a tortoise has been infected with Herpes, the virus can lay dormant
for years and years in the tortoise body tissues and nervous system.It
may not show any signs of infection at all. However, if this tortoise
is stressed in anyway, there is a significant chance that the virus
will reactivate and signs of disease may occur, additionally, this
tortoise is then really likely to start shedding virus - this
dramatically increases the chances of transmission to other torts.

Whilst the disease is "dormant", it is currently not 100% possible to
pick up the infection by tests (In the U.k as far as I am aware),
though this is being worked on. A sick tortoise with the infection is
more likely to be shedding virus so it is more likely to be pciked up
from veterinary sampling techniques. so if you get a
suspected "carrier" tested, youmay not always get positive results.

So, If you have collections of torts, and there is a possiblity any of
them are harbouring Herpes Virus, then there are a number of ways to
miminimise problems.

The most significant factor is that, if any of your tortoises show any
signs of illness in any way - in my opinion you should isolate them
away from the other tortoises and "barrier nurse"

(Barrier nursing - strict hygiene/disinfection, separate feed.water
bowls, wear disposable aprons/gloves when dealing with ill pets: this
can markedly reduce disease transmission)

Other Stresses are poor husbandry, poor enviromental temperature, poor
diet and nutritional deficiencies. Also internal parasites can cause
immunological stress.

A major factor in disease flare ups in infected (previously dormant)
tortoises is the hibernation and post hibernation period - this is when
the immune system can be really compromised.

Lastly, large groups of torts, or mixing different species is also a
major factor in stress and disease transmission.

Hence, It makes sense that if tortoises are kept in an optimum
environment, with the best diet possible, and are regularly screened (
and treated where necessary) for internal parasites, then their own
immune systems should be optimally functioning and protective. Keeping
torts in small groups and not mixing species is also important.

this applies to both infected "carrier" tortoises, to reduce the chance
of the disease activating, and also to reduce the chance of uninfected
tortoises contracting the disease.

I hope this summary is of use, if I can help in any other way, please
feel free to ask.

Hannah

[hbvet]

Thanks sue - Im still pretty useless at this computer lark.

Hannahx

LOL - I used to send all pics to moderatorts to be made smaller Hannah, and had no idea what copy and paste meant. When I moved here it got to be a bit much to keep taking my computer back up to Justin to have him show me how to do things, so I HAD to learn for myself