Insulation questions

Ajay · 16-12-2010, 01:35 AM

I have been reading back through 157 topics including the word "insulation" to answer my many questions about converting my outhouse... (by the way, I've moved house!)

But... While I realise the importance of insulation there are few figures for comparison such as thickness and effeciency. I'm trying to find out how thick a layer of sheep wool I would need to equate to the polystyrene, kingspan, bubblewrap and plywood everyone on here uses.

Purely to see if it's cost effective in terms of future heating bills - as £500's worth of kingspan is definately worth it in the long run, BUT if sheep wool provides the same effeciency of insulation then it's worth it for me - OH's family has thousands of sheep and wool prices are at an alltime low so can basically help myself come shearing season.

All the information I can find so far is from energy service providers and sheep wool insulation companies - so ever so slightly biased!!

This is the first question for now, if it's ok with Sarah I'll post a few questions and answers here (as research goes on) incorporating those already asked on the forum (I've read so many repeats in the 157 topics I'm going crosseyed! And that's not including the searches for "insulate" or "insulating" which bring up MORE posts!!)

**Bindi** · 16-12-2010, 07:44 AM

Hmm fraid i can't help you with this one Ajay, but hopefully someone may be able to soon.

however, for what it's worth I think using the wool is an excellent idea, I use wool rugs to cover my boxed up torts in my Mums garage, they really make a difference to keeping the temps from dropping too low

Pussygalore · 16-12-2010, 08:11 AM

the only reason we used polystyrene/bubble wrap then board was the cost! the poly was free on freecycle. We picked up some enormous sheets of poly that had been used for covering a fish pond and the bubble came from where hubby works as it was used for wrapping the machines that came in. The shed was also free from freecycle we just had to dismantle and move it, I'm all for free if I can. I'd imagine wool would also work very well but might be a bit smelly! and you have to cover it all simply to keep it in place we used the cheapest boarding we could find, my torts had readigrass on the floor so the shed did get dusty so having boarding did mean it could be swept down at the end of the year.

Ajay · 16-12-2010, 09:48 AM

Thanks guys. I've found that the produced wool insulation (that doesn't smell so much of sheep!) has a thermal conductivity rating of 0.039W/mK... Now I just have to figure out what that means LOL! In terms of comparison etc...

I don't mind the smell, and I've never seen any information that suggests tortoises have an irrational fear of sheep... BUT it would affect selling the house later on.. I'm partly allowed (no, encouraged!) to do this as the outhouse is brick built and perfect for an office so once insulated and boarded out it would help selling the house in such a remote place so can't have it smelling like a farm yard!

Ajay · 16-12-2010, 10:04 AM

My other option is loft insulation. Found a reference on here to eco-insulation from Wickes.. Cheap enough at £11 to do the whole thing. Then board/frame etc.

Again, would have to see how efficient it is (at what thickness)... That's what it'll come down to whatever I'm considering.

It has a sloped roof so I'm thinking of putting a false ceiling in made with the wooden frame (to fit insulation between and attach boards to..) with lots of insulation above. Does this sound like a good idea? Rather than trying to heat a larger area that isn't used for anything? This does mean I'd have to lower the light..

I think every little bit will help so perspex inside the window, draught excluders added to the door possibly even a curtain inside the door to stop wind gusting in (and heat out!) when the door is opened (an idea thieved from Sarah's last garage

)

Heating-wise, the obvious choice is a tubular heated on a thermostat as back-up/ambient heating, with whatever basking lights the enclosures have. Everyone seems to agree this is the best method. The tubular heater will not work unless needed so isn't costing a fortune to run at all hours. No question on this one

just putting the info up as something I'm thinking about.

Electricity-wise, girlie question... The building has 2 sockets and a light which all work so I know it has power... how do I know if it's sufficient to run the heater and lights without blowing them up/overloading something/blowing a fuse/other option that spells disaster? I'm not sure how to check whether it's attached to the fuse board - short of ringing up the last people to live here and asking, (which is an option lol but I'm sure there's a way to find out independantly which is a sensible thing to know)

Apologies if this thread gets tedious but there's a lot of information on this site alone but it's all over the place!! And I value your opinions, this site and you lot have never steered me wrong before

**16 shells** · 16-12-2010, 06:44 PM

Hi Ajay i know what you mean by the sheepwool product, if you can get it for nowt, it is a possibility to use, don't know how you can deodourize it though.
There are different rating numbers by different companies selling the insulation but Kingspan would be the top rated one.

**16 shells** · 16-12-2010, 06:52 PM

On the electric's a double socket running lamp's and a tube heater is now't, as long as it is wired up correct, all the appliances are fused down so there should be no problem there.

Pussygalore · 17-12-2010, 08:24 AM

when you mention the door do you mean the torts will be able to come and go during the summer? if so we made the smallest opening at the bottom the the torts could fit through. This means the door can remain closed we then hung thick see through plastic over the hole, the torts have no problem pushing through it to get in and out a bit like a cat flap, we did think about useing cat flaps, my torts have outside access all day but with the small opening and plastic the shed remains nice and warm.

Ajay · 17-12-2010, 12:41 PM

The curtain would be for the human door. There is a second wooden door that I would insulate completely, bar one small square for summer access which would have temporary/removable insulation over it for summer access

Thanks Ann, I missed that out of my post/doodles!

Ajay · 21-12-2010, 10:04 PM

The "shed" in question...

To show where it is - the bizzare coloured doors on the right are the "shed" and on the left is my conservatory. I did say I had a TINY garden.. There will be a fence following the line of gravel (which is a pain in the proverbial) and the little garden on this side.

The square on the floor has matching beams on the ceiling.. I would probably hang a thick curtain around to help stop the heat escaping through the door when it's opened

The next corner (if you're going clockwise) the hole that needs filling in is where the old privy was lol this will be the storage corner. Under the carpet/underlay is the line of the wall n the drop to the next level

Next corner again... This side was the coal store and goes down approx a 2" step where the wall used to be between the privy and store. The floor could be levelled out during the insulating phase. You can see the lightbulb and space for another light. Of no tortoise use as it is but one of the few features so needs pointing out!

Third corner.. Next to the window which will have perspex on it for insulation. Though I'm thinking if the rest is insulated properly this could be useful for ventilation in summer! You can see the central beam.. From the left of this it would be a false ceiling

The two doors... The one on the left will be insulated so it can't be opened. I'm thinking there is no point in leaving a tortoise sized hole and they will just have to be carried out through the opening door

The state of the ceiling at the moment... From the right of the beam the ceiling will be levelled off so I'm not trying to heat space I can't use.

This piece of garden will be lined underneath (pond liner, chicken wire or slabs.. haven't thought this far yet! Got preoccupied with the building!) and built up into a raised bed. The door which opens is just to the right of it. If the shed rennovations appear to be out of my budget/more of a long term plan, the garden part will be done first so torts can have summer house and will have to come inside in rabbit runs (that they're all in now) until I get it done. I will however start pricing ASAP and collecting anything I need for it as it comes up (if anyone spots anything on freecycle etc please point me in the right direction!)

Another update with potential costing up soon. Please let me know any thoughts

16-12-2010, 01:35 AM	#1
Ajay Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 1,000	Insulation questions I have been reading back through 157 topics including the word "insulation" to answer my many questions about converting my outhouse... (by the way, I've moved house!) But... While I realise the importance of insulation there are few figures for comparison such as thickness and effeciency. I'm trying to find out how thick a layer of sheep wool I would need to equate to the polystyrene, kingspan, bubblewrap and plywood everyone on here uses. Purely to see if it's cost effective in terms of future heating bills - as £500's worth of kingspan is definately worth it in the long run, BUT if sheep wool provides the same effeciency of insulation then it's worth it for me - OH's family has thousands of sheep and wool prices are at an alltime low so can basically help myself come shearing season. All the information I can find so far is from energy service providers and sheep wool insulation companies - so ever so slightly biased!! This is the first question for now, if it's ok with Sarah I'll post a few questions and answers here (as research goes on) incorporating those already asked on the forum (I've read so many repeats in the 157 topics I'm going crosseyed! And that's not including the searches for "insulate" or "insulating" which bring up MORE posts!!) __________________ Ajay xxx 0.0.2 Testudo hermanni boettgeri 0.0.2 Geochelone carbonaria 0.0.1 Testudo horsfieldii 1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius 1.0.0 Canis familiaris I am no longer a student; AT LAST!!

16-12-2010, 07:44 AM	#2
Bindi Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Hampshire Posts: 11,157	Hmm fraid i can't help you with this one Ajay, but hopefully someone may be able to soon. however, for what it's worth I think using the wool is an excellent idea, I use wool rugs to cover my boxed up torts in my Mums garage, they really make a difference to keeping the temps from dropping too low __________________

16-12-2010, 09:48 AM	#4
Ajay Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 1,000	Thanks guys. I've found that the produced wool insulation (that doesn't smell so much of sheep!) has a thermal conductivity rating of 0.039W/mK... Now I just have to figure out what that means LOL! In terms of comparison etc... I don't mind the smell, and I've never seen any information that suggests tortoises have an irrational fear of sheep... BUT it would affect selling the house later on.. I'm partly allowed (no, encouraged!) to do this as the outhouse is brick built and perfect for an office so once insulated and boarded out it would help selling the house in such a remote place so can't have it smelling like a farm yard! __________________ Ajay xxx 0.0.2 Testudo hermanni boettgeri 0.0.2 Geochelone carbonaria 0.0.1 Testudo horsfieldii 1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius 1.0.0 Canis familiaris I am no longer a student; AT LAST!!

16-12-2010, 10:04 AM	#5
Ajay Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 1,000	My other option is loft insulation. Found a reference on here to eco-insulation from Wickes.. Cheap enough at £11 to do the whole thing. Then board/frame etc. Again, would have to see how efficient it is (at what thickness)... That's what it'll come down to whatever I'm considering. It has a sloped roof so I'm thinking of putting a false ceiling in made with the wooden frame (to fit insulation between and attach boards to..) with lots of insulation above. Does this sound like a good idea? Rather than trying to heat a larger area that isn't used for anything? This does mean I'd have to lower the light.. I think every little bit will help so perspex inside the window, draught excluders added to the door possibly even a curtain inside the door to stop wind gusting in (and heat out!) when the door is opened (an idea thieved from Sarah's last garage ) Heating-wise, the obvious choice is a tubular heated on a thermostat as back-up/ambient heating, with whatever basking lights the enclosures have. Everyone seems to agree this is the best method. The tubular heater will not work unless needed so isn't costing a fortune to run at all hours. No question on this one just putting the info up as something I'm thinking about. Electricity-wise, girlie question... The building has 2 sockets and a light which all work so I know it has power... how do I know if it's sufficient to run the heater and lights without blowing them up/overloading something/blowing a fuse/other option that spells disaster? I'm not sure how to check whether it's attached to the fuse board - short of ringing up the last people to live here and asking, (which is an option lol but I'm sure there's a way to find out independantly which is a sensible thing to know) Apologies if this thread gets tedious but there's a lot of information on this site alone but it's all over the place!! And I value your opinions, this site and you lot have never steered me wrong before __________________ Ajay xxx 0.0.2 Testudo hermanni boettgeri 0.0.2 Geochelone carbonaria 0.0.1 Testudo horsfieldii 1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius 1.0.0 Canis familiaris I am no longer a student; AT LAST!!

16-12-2010, 06:44 PM	#6
16 shells Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hull Posts: 7,286	Hi Ajay i know what you mean by the sheepwool product, if you can get it for nowt, it is a possibility to use, don't know how you can deodourize it though. There are different rating numbers by different companies selling the insulation but Kingspan would be the top rated one. __________________ Paul.

16-12-2010, 08:11 AM	#3
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	the only reason we used polystyrene/bubble wrap then board was the cost! the poly was free on freecycle. We picked up some enormous sheets of poly that had been used for covering a fish pond and the bubble came from where hubby works as it was used for wrapping the machines that came in. The shed was also free from freecycle we just had to dismantle and move it, I'm all for free if I can. I'd imagine wool would also work very well but might be a bit smelly! and you have to cover it all simply to keep it in place we used the cheapest boarding we could find, my torts had readigrass on the floor so the shed did get dusty so having boarding did mean it could be swept down at the end of the year.

16-12-2010, 06:52 PM	#7
16 shells Super Moderator Adult Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hull Posts: 7,286	On the electric's a double socket running lamp's and a tube heater is now't, as long as it is wired up correct, all the appliances are fused down so there should be no problem there. __________________ Paul.

17-12-2010, 08:24 AM	#8
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	when you mention the door do you mean the torts will be able to come and go during the summer? if so we made the smallest opening at the bottom the the torts could fit through. This means the door can remain closed we then hung thick see through plastic over the hole, the torts have no problem pushing through it to get in and out a bit like a cat flap, we did think about useing cat flaps, my torts have outside access all day but with the small opening and plastic the shed remains nice and warm.

17-12-2010, 12:41 PM	#9
Ajay Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 1,000	The curtain would be for the human door. There is a second wooden door that I would insulate completely, bar one small square for summer access which would have temporary/removable insulation over it for summer access Thanks Ann, I missed that out of my post/doodles! __________________ Ajay xxx 0.0.2 Testudo hermanni boettgeri 0.0.2 Geochelone carbonaria 0.0.1 Testudo horsfieldii 1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius 1.0.0 Canis familiaris I am no longer a student; AT LAST!!

21-12-2010, 10:04 PM	#10
Ajay Senior Member Sub Adult Join Date: May 2007 Location: Durham Posts: 1,000	The "shed" in question... To show where it is - the bizzare coloured doors on the right are the "shed" and on the left is my conservatory. I did say I had a TINY garden.. There will be a fence following the line of gravel (which is a pain in the proverbial) and the little garden on this side. The square on the floor has matching beams on the ceiling.. I would probably hang a thick curtain around to help stop the heat escaping through the door when it's opened The next corner (if you're going clockwise) the hole that needs filling in is where the old privy was lol this will be the storage corner. Under the carpet/underlay is the line of the wall n the drop to the next level Next corner again... This side was the coal store and goes down approx a 2" step where the wall used to be between the privy and store. The floor could be levelled out during the insulating phase. You can see the lightbulb and space for another light. Of no tortoise use as it is but one of the few features so needs pointing out! Third corner.. Next to the window which will have perspex on it for insulation. Though I'm thinking if the rest is insulated properly this could be useful for ventilation in summer! You can see the central beam.. From the left of this it would be a false ceiling The two doors... The one on the left will be insulated so it can't be opened. I'm thinking there is no point in leaving a tortoise sized hole and they will just have to be carried out through the opening door The state of the ceiling at the moment... From the right of the beam the ceiling will be levelled off so I'm not trying to heat space I can't use. This piece of garden will be lined underneath (pond liner, chicken wire or slabs.. haven't thought this far yet! Got preoccupied with the building!) and built up into a raised bed. The door which opens is just to the right of it. If the shed rennovations appear to be out of my budget/more of a long term plan, the garden part will be done first so torts can have summer house and will have to come inside in rabbit runs (that they're all in now) until I get it done. I will however start pricing ASAP and collecting anything I need for it as it comes up (if anyone spots anything on freecycle etc please point me in the right direction!) Another update with potential costing up soon. Please let me know any thoughts __________________ Ajay xxx 0.0.2 Testudo hermanni boettgeri 0.0.2 Geochelone carbonaria 0.0.1 Testudo horsfieldii 1.0.0 Eublepharis macularius 1.0.0 Canis familiaris I am no longer a student; AT LAST!!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)