When do Graeca Graecas normally lay? - Page 2

clairekentuk · 10-07-2006, 07:58 PM

Ok thanks for the advice, you sound very experienced to me.

I will wait as you say for a week or two and then if nothing ill get an xray done on them both. Its better for her I presume to lay naturally as once she picks her spot she should lay there again.

piglet · 10-07-2006, 08:11 PM

Claire i know its stressful to you watching her pacing etc but she will lay in the end and yes it will be better for her in the long run to choose her own nest site but really there is no harm in having her xrayed to curb your curiosity on whether she has eggs or not then put her back and wait.
I have had many a female xrayed more nearer the end of summer than now just to check her out because signs tell me she may be gravid well some do some don't its all a learning process and i find it helps learn the animals behaviour .
I now some will disagree but its each to there own as long as there cared for correctly
Darren

terrific tortoises · 10-07-2006, 09:32 PM

I cant really add much more to what Darren and sandy have already said claire, I know how stressful it can be, not just for your tort, but also for yourself!. Each tort seems to be different when it comes to laying her eggs, the 1st lay in a new enviroment, may be a factor?...T.T. 8)

clairekentuk · 11-07-2006, 09:49 AM

Thanks for advice everyone. I have booked both my females in for xray on Thursday just to get them checked out. At least then Ill be able to stop bothering you with my questions!

If the vet does need to induce then do I disgard the eggs or incubate?

sandy · 11-07-2006, 11:09 AM

Hi Claire
If there are eggs, and she lays them ok, I would certainly incubate them. You know they have
been together before you got them. So no reason they shouldnt be fertile.
Its also good practice, to really check out your incubator.

piglet · 11-07-2006, 12:37 PM

Claire
Never think you are bothering anyone on here we are happy to help any time, its sometimes difficult giving out advice when its someone else’s animals as they all have individual characters and its not always easy to recommend a practice to take without actually knowing the animals character.
Please keep us informed of what happens at the vets and the results from what ever eggs you get.
Darren

clairekentuk · 11-07-2006, 12:59 PM

Well I have called my vet back this morning and they have squeezed me in today instead of thurs. The reason for this is the last couple of days Molly has been lethargic and I thought this was weather related but today she is just sitting there and then standing on her back legs she may be constipated or something. This is what Rosemary did when she passed the large solid urates a few weeks back.

I have an appointment for this afternoon now.

They may or may not be able to squeeze xray in today if not Ill have to go back tommorrow morning. Ill let you know when I get back how they are. Im taking rosemary along for the ride as they said they should be able to fit both on the slide.
I dont know the tortoises so well having only had them a few months but I am concerned for Molly as you probably can all tell.

Hopefully Ill know tonight.

Update: went to vets for consultation. Had faeces samples taken while I was there and am going back tommorrow to have them xrayed as they were too busy to xray this afternoon.

clairekentuk · 12-07-2006, 10:53 AM

She has been to the vets and both have been x-rayed and no eggs so is phantom pregnancy.
Im glad there is nothing wrong but am no closer to finding out why she running around sniffing all the time. I dont think the males are bothering them at all.

Also im faced with the reality that im overfeeding as they both put on 80-100g in 3 months.

Am I right to presume if there are no eggs at this time of year then they wont produce them now. Or will I need to get them checked again before hibernation?

Still as anxious as ever as to what is causing Molly to be so restless. Any ideas? Or is it simply likely to be phantom pregnancy?

Claire

sandy · 12-07-2006, 12:15 PM

Hi Claire

At least you now know she is not gravid<g>. Perhaps she is just an inquisitive tortoise and likes
getting to know her new enclosure.
Lol over feeding is so easy to do, but if your enclosures have plenty for them to forage, then dont
feed anymore. Far better they are a little hungry than overfed.
There is no reason why your females shouldnt make eggs this year, but usually when going to a
new home it doesnt happen. All the changes seem to have an effect.
I personally dont xray any tortoise that I think is carrying eggs. I prefer to let nature take its
course. I have had one of my female GG lay in the first month out of hibernation, before being
mixed with the males. They were fertile eggs.
If there was a real problem thats different. But I dont like using medication on my
tortoises unless its really needed.

clairekentuk · 12-07-2006, 02:03 PM

That is wise Sandy, I am all for natural conditions in every aspect of life whether it children or tortoises as far as possible. Anyway a sample has been looked at under a microscope and she has worms. They tried to give me a tiny vial of solution which was a high strength so i could give less. I refused as it is harder to get an accurate dose.
They recommended I did all of the torts in the group and advised against stomach tubing them due to the stress and cost involved for 11 of them. (29 pound each)

What panacur do people use? I need to buy a whole bottle / tube as a tiny amount in a vial isnt any use for me they hadnt allowed for the second dose even for the 2 of them and it was 18 quid so i politely refused.

Her tort knowledge then ended when she told me they were dangerously underweight and had used the jacksons ratio with the top of the carpace length. And told me to give them banana and lettuce every day to fatten them up. One perhaps is a little under still - she feels lighter than the rest. I have weighed frequently but I dont measure the length. I assume they arent critically under though given where they came from, she was in a state of panic bless her! I aqssume they can tell if eggs are present though. Will rake out their jacksons ratios from when i got them. I learnt not to go there again for anything other than xrays. They were the third of the price for both than the specialist vet charges for one tort.

Hopefully it is simply just worms that has caused her to go off her food and I have no idea why she has dug 3 nests?! Weird

10-07-2006, 07:58 PM	#11
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Ok thanks for the advice, you sound very experienced to me. I will wait as you say for a week or two and then if nothing ill get an xray done on them both. Its better for her I presume to lay naturally as once she picks her spot she should lay there again. __________________

10-07-2006, 08:11 PM	#12
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Claire i know its stressful to you watching her pacing etc but she will lay in the end and yes it will be better for her in the long run to choose her own nest site but really there is no harm in having her xrayed to curb your curiosity on whether she has eggs or not then put her back and wait. I have had many a female xrayed more nearer the end of summer than now just to check her out because signs tell me she may be gravid well some do some don't its all a learning process and i find it helps learn the animals behaviour . I now some will disagree but its each to there own as long as there cared for correctly Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

10-07-2006, 09:32 PM	#13
terrific tortoises Member Juvenile Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 861	I cant really add much more to what Darren and sandy have already said claire, I know how stressful it can be, not just for your tort, but also for yourself!. Each tort seems to be different when it comes to laying her eggs, the 1st lay in a new enviroment, may be a factor?...T.T. 8) __________________

11-07-2006, 09:49 AM	#14
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Thanks for advice everyone. I have booked both my females in for xray on Thursday just to get them checked out. At least then Ill be able to stop bothering you with my questions! If the vet does need to induce then do I disgard the eggs or incubate? __________________

11-07-2006, 11:09 AM	#15
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Hi Claire If there are eggs, and she lays them ok, I would certainly incubate them. You know they have been together before you got them. So no reason they shouldnt be fertile. Its also good practice, to really check out your incubator. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

11-07-2006, 12:37 PM	#16
piglet Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,976	Claire Never think you are bothering anyone on here we are happy to help any time, its sometimes difficult giving out advice when its someone else’s animals as they all have individual characters and its not always easy to recommend a practice to take without actually knowing the animals character. Please keep us informed of what happens at the vets and the results from what ever eggs you get. Darren __________________ 17 years old 25 years ago

11-07-2006, 12:59 PM	#17
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	Well I have called my vet back this morning and they have squeezed me in today instead of thurs. The reason for this is the last couple of days Molly has been lethargic and I thought this was weather related but today she is just sitting there and then standing on her back legs she may be constipated or something. This is what Rosemary did when she passed the large solid urates a few weeks back. I have an appointment for this afternoon now. They may or may not be able to squeeze xray in today if not Ill have to go back tommorrow morning. Ill let you know when I get back how they are. Im taking rosemary along for the ride as they said they should be able to fit both on the slide. I dont know the tortoises so well having only had them a few months but I am concerned for Molly as you probably can all tell. Hopefully Ill know tonight. Update: went to vets for consultation. Had faeces samples taken while I was there and am going back tommorrow to have them xrayed as they were too busy to xray this afternoon. __________________

12-07-2006, 10:53 AM	#18
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	She has been to the vets and both have been x-rayed and no eggs so is phantom pregnancy. Im glad there is nothing wrong but am no closer to finding out why she running around sniffing all the time. I dont think the males are bothering them at all. Also im faced with the reality that im overfeeding as they both put on 80-100g in 3 months. Am I right to presume if there are no eggs at this time of year then they wont produce them now. Or will I need to get them checked again before hibernation? Still as anxious as ever as to what is causing Molly to be so restless. Any ideas? Or is it simply likely to be phantom pregnancy? Claire __________________

12-07-2006, 12:15 PM	#19
sandy Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 12,146	Hi Claire At least you now know she is not gravid<g>. Perhaps she is just an inquisitive tortoise and likes getting to know her new enclosure. Lol over feeding is so easy to do, but if your enclosures have plenty for them to forage, then dont feed anymore. Far better they are a little hungry than overfed. There is no reason why your females shouldnt make eggs this year, but usually when going to a new home it doesnt happen. All the changes seem to have an effect. I personally dont xray any tortoise that I think is carrying eggs. I prefer to let nature take its course. I have had one of my female GG lay in the first month out of hibernation, before being mixed with the males. They were fertile eggs. If there was a real problem thats different. But I dont like using medication on my tortoises unless its really needed. __________________ < > 60+, keeping ibera, graeca and box turtles \0/ /_\ http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/tortoisefriends

12-07-2006, 02:03 PM	#20
clairekentuk Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 120	That is wise Sandy, I am all for natural conditions in every aspect of life whether it children or tortoises as far as possible. Anyway a sample has been looked at under a microscope and she has worms. They tried to give me a tiny vial of solution which was a high strength so i could give less. I refused as it is harder to get an accurate dose. They recommended I did all of the torts in the group and advised against stomach tubing them due to the stress and cost involved for 11 of them. (29 pound each) What panacur do people use? I need to buy a whole bottle / tube as a tiny amount in a vial isnt any use for me they hadnt allowed for the second dose even for the 2 of them and it was 18 quid so i politely refused. Her tort knowledge then ended when she told me they were dangerously underweight and had used the jacksons ratio with the top of the carpace length. And told me to give them banana and lettuce every day to fatten them up. One perhaps is a little under still - she feels lighter than the rest. I have weighed frequently but I dont measure the length. I assume they arent critically under though given where they came from, she was in a state of panic bless her! I aqssume they can tell if eggs are present though. Will rake out their jacksons ratios from when i got them. I learnt not to go there again for anything other than xrays. They were the third of the price for both than the specialist vet charges for one tort. Hopefully it is simply just worms that has caused her to go off her food and I have no idea why she has dug 3 nests?! Weird __________________

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