Hibernation

[EJ]

I think the temperature is the primary trigger but I suspect that not only the duration of the light but more importantly the angle of the light probably has a part in the play.

All those tortoises I mentioned have populations which hibernate and populations which don't.

Originally Posted by helen1

Please can someone clear this up for me........feeling stupid today.

A species that has an extensive range will hibernate in the cooler climes...........

So... if this is an adaptation... the temperature is the trigger? maybe light as well?

So.... if the same species lives in the warmer climes it doesnt hibernate?

If.. this is the case why hibernate?

If therefore we practice based on evidence, can someone point to the evidence that to not hibernate is bad.

I only ask as it is a little like a jigsaw,,without all the pieces I cannot see the full picture?

Thank you

[helen1]

So if the same species does and doesnt hibernate depending on temp..........

Why subject a species to the stress/dangers of hibernating when it can happily continue thrugh the coldspell?

Might as well extend all my heated units in the garage...

Angle of the light interesting.. gonna have to get my head on to figure that as a picture.

Thank you

[EJ]

I wondered about the angle because I wonder what triggers trees to loose their leaves in the fall... just a thought.

Originally Posted by helen1

So if the same species does and doesnt hibernate depending on temp..........

Why subject a species to the stress/dangers of hibernating when it can happily continue thrugh the coldspell?

Might as well extend all my heated units in the garage...

Angle of the light interesting.. gonna have to get my head on to figure that as a picture.

Thank you

[helen1]

I always thought it was the return of the nitrogen and phosphorous to the stem which triggered the leaf fall? Or is it a chicken and egg thing?

[helen1]

aaaah the trigger to the tree?

[terrypin]

Originally Posted by helen1

Please can someone clear this up for me........feeling stupid today.

A species that has an extensive range will hibernate in the cooler climes...........

So... if this is an adaptation... the temperature is the trigger? maybe light as well?

So.... if the same species lives in the warmer climes it doesnt hibernate?

If.. this is the case why hibernate?

If therefore we practice based on evidence, can someone point to the evidence that to not hibernate is bad.

I only ask as it is a little like a jigsaw,,without all the pieces I cannot see the full picture?


hi Helen and i stress this is just my opinion and it works for me my tortoise species and sub species apart from the leopards come from a temperate climate therefore in thier natural range they experience the different seasons and find it neccessary to hibernate ,as the tortoises i keep all live outdoors with some sort of cover or hut to protect them from extremes of weather they experience differrent temperatures and light levels throughout the summer ,so naturally start to wind down towards winter ,as they would in the wild, my youngsters show smooth growth and also i am now breeding second generation captive bred hermanni and expect the same from my tgg soon, im sure yours will survive for some time without hibernation and i hope they do but will they look and behave like thier wild cousins i know mine do.

terry

Thank you

[EJ]

This is the last I'll post on the topic because I know I'm heading into trouble but this is interesting...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_foliage

Originally Posted by helen1

I always thought it was the return of the nitrogen and phosphorous to the stem which triggered the leaf fall? Or is it a chicken and egg thing?

[tortoiseguy]

I have not posted on this forum for a few weeks for the very reasons that Tamie, and others before her, pointed out. I decided to give it another go and see how things are progressing and was very sad to see that things have not improved. This is an open forum and any opinion is valid, but if wrong information is repeatedly given by the same individual and tortoise health is at risk I feel a responsible forum with responsible moderators should step in. The main objective of any tortoise forum should be to promote correct care of chelonia and it saddens me that this is not always the case, and simply turning a blind eye and letting individuals rant is not an option when people are influenced by these opinions. I was hoping that things would have improved and I could get back to my regular SW browsing as I love following most threads and seeing all the pics of everyone (normally Dans) hatchlings, but im afraid I wont be back while tortoises are put t risk.

I can see fully why Tamie feels so strongly about the subject as it will be her that is finding homes for the majority of the sick tortoises, as a result of incorrect advice, in years to come even though she has provided great advice. End rant!

[EJ]

All I can say is... Think.

There is no one or right way.

Originally Posted by tortoiseguy

I have not posted on this forum for a few weeks for the very reasons that Tamie, and others before her, pointed out. I decided to give it another go and see how things are progressing and was very sad to see that things have not improved. This is an open forum and any opinion is valid, but if wrong information is repeatedly given by the same individual and tortoise health is at risk I feel a responsible forum with responsible moderators should step in. The main objective of any tortoise forum should be to promote correct care of chelonia and it saddens me that this is not always the case, and simply turning a blind eye and letting individuals rant is not an option when people are influenced by these opinions. I was hoping that things would have improved and I could get back to my regular SW browsing as I love following most threads and seeing all the pics of everyone (normally Dans) hatchlings, but im afraid I wont be back while tortoises are put t risk.

I can see fully why Tamie feels so strongly about the subject as it will be her that is finding homes for the majority of the sick tortoises, as a result of incorrect advice, in years to come even though she has provided great advice. End rant!

[tortoiseguy]

EJ I am sure it will be me that gets told to calm it down, but kindly do not patronise me "Think" that is exactly what I am doing, and I "think" that although you have a very god way of wording things and giving the impression that you know what you are talking about you simply dont. and I "think" that you will be responsible for a lot of ill tortoises. May that be something for you to think about.