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Old 03-02-2016, 07:40 PM   #11
Splinter
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Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan View Post
Tortoises don't think! They are 100% instinct, have a brain the size of a peanut and are not capable of thought. Tortoises do not know they exist and they do now 'know' anything else either - they just exist.

The brain of a tortoise is very basic. Cats and dogs are about 100 times as intelligent.
Some rather sweeping statements that you can't really prove or disprove, nobody can

I imagine people are not capable of "true thought" and what we "think" is actually more of an "instinct", I suspect everything we "think" is actually predetermined based on a huge number of different factors/experiances etc. Much like a very powerful computer that we don't understand yet and will probably never understand. I can't prove or disprove that either, as our understanding of much is very limited and probably incorrect in many cases

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree on a lot!
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Old 03-02-2016, 07:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan View Post
Tortoises don't think! They are 100% instinct, have a brain the size of a peanut and are not capable of thought. Tortoises do not know they exist and they do now 'know' anything else either - they just exist.

The brain of a tortoise is very basic. Cats and dogs are about 100 times as intelligent.

For me personally, tortoises are living proof that intelligence is very over-rated. Humans are the most intelligent species on the planet but take a look around you and watch the news on the tv. How are we doing? ****
Jonathan you do talk nonsense
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:33 PM   #13
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Most interesting debate!

A colleague of mine had an assignment to do for his MPhil - "Is a whale a human?"...........

I was interested to read a researcher received an award for her work on tortoise intelligence:

http://www.lincoln.ac.uk/news/2011/09/422.asp


Seems like the University of Vienna have also been undertaking research and found challenges set for tortoises, although food related, were only successfully achieved by primates (I think also animals that have demonstrated high levels of intelligence).

I'm going to do a bit more reading on this one!

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Old 03-02-2016, 09:53 PM   #14
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All I will say is that I think tortoises are amazing creatures with fantastic abilities but their brain is capable only of very basic processing of information.

Humans are so clever that they can project capabilities onto tortoises which come from their imagination and convince themselves that there is evidence for the delusion they just dreamt!
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:22 PM   #15
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Humans are so clever that they can project capabilities onto tortoises which come from their imagination and convince themselves that there is evidence for the delusion they just dreamt!
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

My thread is not about if torts can or cannot "think", but if anyone else has seen this "tip toes" behaviour. I can assure you I am not imagining it, am not delusional nor was I dreaming.

If humans are the "clever" ones, then why is it that Bertie is the one getting exactly what he wants?

Last edited by Splinter; 03-02-2016 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:41 PM   #16
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Also regardless of his reasons for doing it, I think the fact that he knows if he goes up on "tip toes", it makes him easier to be picked up, shows their intelligence is not so bad
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:10 PM   #17
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Vote King kong !

A little one of mine does do slight tip toes when placed in water.

Molluscs for prime minister!
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:27 PM   #18
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I've gone back to Splinter's original post and it's true it only asks if other people's tortoises seem to indicate they want to be picked up. The answer I think is yes they do sometimes, or some do.

Then I've taken myself off on a journey about intelligence and other things and Splinter hasn't made any outlandish claims for tortoises. CB has, regards molluscs, but he is forgiven.

I'm thinking Sandy had it about right (for me at least). There might be food hence the behaviour. Full stop.
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:33 AM   #19
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Call me bonkers (I often call myself a mad cow) but my Theo will follow me and if he's in his table and I go anywhere near him he'll race across and want a head rub or to be picked up for some fuss. He'll do it anytime; whether he's just eaten, if he's basking or even if he's sleeping and I disturb him. I know he's not just after food as I've offered it before and he isn't interested - he just wants his head and neck massage!!
In the garden if I call his name he reacts to it and will come across to me. The others tend to just carry on with what they're doing but Theo is a proper mummy's boy.
He'll stretch his head up and will stay put and let me rub his head and neck for ages. Talk about spoilt!!

They may have small brains but out of all my torts I'm pretty sure that Theo doesn't just see me as his food source.
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:00 AM   #20
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My male Ibera Sid would always come running when you went in with him but only to try to butt/mount/bite anything he could reach, food was the last thing on his mind. The hatchlings did show interest in anything new around them and would often come over but again it was to see what I was doing or had, I do think though that having a tort that doesn't mind being handled makes things a lot easier if they have to visit a vet and my babies were happy to be picked up by prospective buyers. The younger the tort the more interested they are about their surroundings much the same as other young animals but they do grow out of it as they get older or rather don't have the same enthusiasm.
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