Hermanns in my local Pets at Home :-( - Page 4

dugy · 10-04-2009, 06:18 PM

my local store doesn't sell them..

your correct EJ, alot of us did start with a petshop tort.. but now it seems sensible to try and cut out as many shops selling them and try to direct possible owners to UK breeders....

if we cannot do that then i think that we can try and change teh way that they are being kept.. in my own opinion i hear of teh torts being kept incorrectly.. of course, this is my own opinion.....

EJ · 10-04-2009, 06:21 PM

What's wrong with being people lovers first...

There is always going to be abuse... I don't see it here and the attacks on people who choose to make their living selling pets strikes me as wrong in most cases.

Not all pets in shops 'don't stand a chance'... I know many shop keepers and employees who care about the animals as much as you or I.

It's the blanket statements that get me going... all shops are bad... you can't keep a tortoise in a viv... you can't raise a tortoise on anything but weeds... nonsense like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackie Stone

I think the problem is that in England we are supposed to be animal lovers but I am afraid that many animals are kept in very poor conditions and we have people leaving animals left at the side of the road in bags and people getting dogs from the paper that need good homes but they are used for dog fighting and are muzzled so that they cant defend themselves and that is why we get so upset about animals in pet shops who dont stand a chance

alotoffluff · 10-04-2009, 06:23 PM

we are trying to raise awareness by giving them the correct caresheets that have been devised by experts such as the tortoise trust!

im not "shoving" my values anywhere, just trying to do the right thing.

I dont know about online courses for tortoise keeping, but i do know from experience how to care for a tortoise correctly. I am of course learning all the time, but im not narrow minded enough to suggest that i have all the knowledge i need from a book that wasnt even written by a tortoise keeper, just a researcher!

I know some people will argue with my reasons for getting frustrated at this shop, but may i suggest that they may be a little "frustrated" themselves.

alotoffluff · 10-04-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ

What's wrong with being people lovers first...

There is always going to be abuse... I don't see it here and the attacks on people who choose to make their living selling pets strikes me as wrong in most cases.

Not all pets in shops 'don't stand a chance'... I know many shop keepers and employees who care about the animals as much as you or I.

It's the blanket statements that get me going... all shops are bad... you can't keep a tortoise in a viv... you can't raise a tortoise on anything but weeds... nonsense like that.

we were never saying that all shops are bad, just that their care could be a little better.
The shop keepers over here seem to be out for the money and not for the animal welfare. If the shop keepers over there care like you say they do, then thats great!
I understand you can raise torts on a varied diet and not just weeds, but spring greens? Every day??? Surely a varied diet of weeds, and other foods is better than a bag of spring greens from a supermarket?

Pussygalore · 14-04-2009, 11:24 AM

Have you ever ran a shop? who are you going to pay and trust to go out and pick weeds everyday, even zoo's don't do that, considering how slow the torts metabolism is I doubt that the few days/weeks it is the shop and fed on pellets or commercial food will do any lasting harm. Think how hot it can get in the med or other countries where torts are found, probably a lot hotter than any viv. How many of you keep a rabbit in the house or a cat and it doesn't go outside I think that is cruel but those that do would say they are ok and its an acceptable way of keeping them, there are different ways of caring for animals and I don't think that any one way is the right and only way, as long as the petshop meets the required guide lines ie then they are not breaking any laws. Go onto different web sites and you'll read about the different methods of keeping torts each of those owners beleives that their's is the best way and thats fine it will never change and a bit like religion we should learn to accept each others different ideas and not try to ram our own down others throats.

aerofine · 14-04-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pussygalore

Have you ever ran a shop? who are you going to pay and trust to go out and pick weeds everyday, even zoo's don't do that, considering how slow the torts metabolism is I doubt that the few days/weeks it is the shop and fed on pellets or commercial food will do any lasting harm. Think how hot it can get in the med or other countries where torts are found, probably a lot hotter than any viv. How many of you keep a rabbit in the house or a cat and it doesn't go outside I think that is cruel but those that do would say they are ok and its an acceptable way of keeping them, there are different ways of caring for animals and I don't think that any one way is the right and only way, as long as the petshop meets the required guide lines ie then they are not breaking any laws. Go onto different web sites and you'll read about the different methods of keeping torts each of those owners beleives that their's is the best way and thats fine it will never change and a bit like religion we should learn to accept each others different ideas and not try to ram our own down others throats.

I disagree - If I feel that how an animal is being kept/treated is wrong and I have an explanation and back up evidence to show a different way of keeping said animal in different conditions to help that animal flourish/live better then I am going to express that view. You may see that as raming my opinion down someone else's throat but hey I can and I will if I feel it necessary.

By the sounds of what I have read the torts are not kept in "cruel" conditions but in mediocre conditions. This is simply due to knowledge and understanding and I would not disagree with anyone who wanted to right that.

Sally_liz · 14-04-2009, 11:53 AM

I think this whole pet shops selling torts is a vicious circle. Some people are correct in saying they are not treated in an ideal way in their time in the shop, but hopefully it won't be long until they are rehomed. The majority of pet shop tortoises are imports. Having spoken to our local pet shop, they are unable to get breeders to sell them UK bred torts, so they can only get them by buying imports. Maybe the UK breeders should provide to these pet shops & work closely with them to ensure the torts are getting the best care poss. Then in theory we eliminate two problems.
I personally can't say much about vivs as my two are both in vivs. The cool end is left open so not only is there a good temperature variant but there is also a good airflow (I check temps daily). I also give pellets to my torts. They do get weeds, but approx every 3 days they have pellets soaked in water. I personally think this is a great way of ensuring my torts are getting enough water. I think it would be surprising as to how many people on here use a viv or pellets and just keep quiet.

aerofine · 14-04-2009, 12:03 PM

Its not so much the fact that torts are kept in vivs whilst in pet shops (even though they could be kept in open topped pens/tables with wire mesh locked lids) its the fact that many many petshops give out the wrong information with regards to torts. Thats is the main problem - as people who buy these torts will rely on the "info" that is being given to them by the petshop.

Before I bought my 2 torts, I too went to an exotic petshop in Wigan and enquired. I was told that 2 4-5 year old torts would be fine in a 3-4ft viv, give them cabbage and greens, no need to hibernate etc etc like many people on here have been told. Now I went away after being told all this, and also the fact I was told that for all of the boave including 2 torts plus a heatmat and all other bits and bobs we was looking at a £450 bill. I thought that seems quite expensive so I did some research on the Net, found this site and RFUK and never looked back! I got my torts from a breeder, I sorted out a table for them and buillt them an outdoor pen, megaray etc etc and spent around £300-350 including the £200 for 2 torts.

And this is where the problem lies - that what I did is not the norm and that listening to dud info is.

aerofine · 14-04-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky12

Being heavy handed wont get you anywhere in life. Ive worked with one of my local pet shops for years in the care of guinea pigs and rabbits and they are now selling reptiles so I will continue to work with them there as well.

Its been a gentle process but its been worth it. If I had gone in just stating that what I knew was best I wouldnt have got the results that I have.

If you want to think your way is right and the only way then thats fine but keep it to yourself.

I think you will find that message boards are for people to speak their thoughts, so please do not tell me to keep anything to myself.

Pussygalore · 14-04-2009, 12:07 PM

what evidence is there? go back a few years and everyone kept their torts different including the big well known society's, wasn't it only the other year that Aubiose went out of "fashion" I don't think that any of the "new" methods have been around long enough to prove anything. The local pet shop to me also sells reptiles and yes they are viv's but are always clean, have water and food and are as well cared for as a shop can provide,you need a specific problem to try to correct a shop on and just not liking what you see as its not the way we keep them at home isn't a reason. I've also spoken or complained in some shops and waited while the problem was corrected ie no water etc but the majority of shop staff (barring the owner) aren't there to make a career out of working in a shop just doing it as a means of extra money. Supposing you had a child would you be happy should they say I want to work in a petshop for my life, they pay basic money and get basic staff, like I said would you trust one of them to go and pick weeds, a few may be there because they want to learn and love animals but would you give up your day job and work in one? Most shops sell the current books that are available but aren't most of them out of date, the ones I brought only 2 years ago still say a lot of the old ideas, so whats a shop to do? doesn't it all come down to individual opiniums? is there really a right and a wrong way? all my torts live outside from spring to autumm they are all hibenated because to me its as close to nature as I can get but does that make all those who keep them in tables and don't hibernate wrong?.

14-04-2009, 12:03 PM	#38
aerofine Member Incubating Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Wigan Lancashire Posts: 208	Its not so much the fact that torts are kept in vivs whilst in pet shops (even though they could be kept in open topped pens/tables with wire mesh locked lids) its the fact that many many petshops give out the wrong information with regards to torts. Thats is the main problem - as people who buy these torts will rely on the "info" that is being given to them by the petshop. Before I bought my 2 torts, I too went to an exotic petshop in Wigan and enquired. I was told that 2 4-5 year old torts would be fine in a 3-4ft viv, give them cabbage and greens, no need to hibernate etc etc like many people on here have been told. Now I went away after being told all this, and also the fact I was told that for all of the boave including 2 torts plus a heatmat and all other bits and bobs we was looking at a £450 bill. I thought that seems quite expensive so I did some research on the Net, found this site and RFUK and never looked back! I got my torts from a breeder, I sorted out a table for them and buillt them an outdoor pen, megaray etc etc and spent around £300-350 including the £200 for 2 torts. And this is where the problem lies - that what I did is not the norm and that listening to dud info is. __________________ I'm not biased I don't care who beats St Helens

10-04-2009, 06:18 PM	#31
dugy Member Juvenile Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne Posts: 958	my local store doesn't sell them.. your correct EJ, alot of us did start with a petshop tort.. but now it seems sensible to try and cut out as many shops selling them and try to direct possible owners to UK breeders.... if we cannot do that then i think that we can try and change teh way that they are being kept.. in my own opinion i hear of teh torts being kept incorrectly.. of course, this is my own opinion.....

10-04-2009, 06:23 PM	#33
alotoffluff Senior Member Adult Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: greenwich, london, previously born and brought up in Kent! Posts: 2,127	we are trying to raise awareness by giving them the correct caresheets that have been devised by experts such as the tortoise trust! im not "shoving" my values anywhere, just trying to do the right thing. I dont know about online courses for tortoise keeping, but i do know from experience how to care for a tortoise correctly. I am of course learning all the time, but im not narrow minded enough to suggest that i have all the knowledge i need from a book that wasnt even written by a tortoise keeper, just a researcher! I know some people will argue with my reasons for getting frustrated at this shop, but may i suggest that they may be a little "frustrated" themselves.

14-04-2009, 11:24 AM	#35
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	Have you ever ran a shop? who are you going to pay and trust to go out and pick weeds everyday, even zoo's don't do that, considering how slow the torts metabolism is I doubt that the few days/weeks it is the shop and fed on pellets or commercial food will do any lasting harm. Think how hot it can get in the med or other countries where torts are found, probably a lot hotter than any viv. How many of you keep a rabbit in the house or a cat and it doesn't go outside I think that is cruel but those that do would say they are ok and its an acceptable way of keeping them, there are different ways of caring for animals and I don't think that any one way is the right and only way, as long as the petshop meets the required guide lines ie then they are not breaking any laws. Go onto different web sites and you'll read about the different methods of keeping torts each of those owners beleives that their's is the best way and thats fine it will never change and a bit like religion we should learn to accept each others different ideas and not try to ram our own down others throats.

14-04-2009, 11:53 AM	#37
Sally_liz Member Incubating Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset, UK Posts: 157	I think this whole pet shops selling torts is a vicious circle. Some people are correct in saying they are not treated in an ideal way in their time in the shop, but hopefully it won't be long until they are rehomed. The majority of pet shop tortoises are imports. Having spoken to our local pet shop, they are unable to get breeders to sell them UK bred torts, so they can only get them by buying imports. Maybe the UK breeders should provide to these pet shops & work closely with them to ensure the torts are getting the best care poss. Then in theory we eliminate two problems. I personally can't say much about vivs as my two are both in vivs. The cool end is left open so not only is there a good temperature variant but there is also a good airflow (I check temps daily). I also give pellets to my torts. They do get weeds, but approx every 3 days they have pellets soaked in water. I personally think this is a great way of ensuring my torts are getting enough water. I think it would be surprising as to how many people on here use a viv or pellets and just keep quiet.

14-04-2009, 12:07 PM	#40
Pussygalore Senior Member Adult Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cambridge Posts: 6,479	what evidence is there? go back a few years and everyone kept their torts different including the big well known society's, wasn't it only the other year that Aubiose went out of "fashion" I don't think that any of the "new" methods have been around long enough to prove anything. The local pet shop to me also sells reptiles and yes they are viv's but are always clean, have water and food and are as well cared for as a shop can provide,you need a specific problem to try to correct a shop on and just not liking what you see as its not the way we keep them at home isn't a reason. I've also spoken or complained in some shops and waited while the problem was corrected ie no water etc but the majority of shop staff (barring the owner) aren't there to make a career out of working in a shop just doing it as a means of extra money. Supposing you had a child would you be happy should they say I want to work in a petshop for my life, they pay basic money and get basic staff, like I said would you trust one of them to go and pick weeds, a few may be there because they want to learn and love animals but would you give up your day job and work in one? Most shops sell the current books that are available but aren't most of them out of date, the ones I brought only 2 years ago still say a lot of the old ideas, so whats a shop to do? doesn't it all come down to individual opiniums? is there really a right and a wrong way? all my torts live outside from spring to autumm they are all hibenated because to me its as close to nature as I can get but does that make all those who keep them in tables and don't hibernate wrong?.

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