The BCG

[romski]

I have kept my own council for a good while whilst this exchange has been going on. I have however written 4 times since the meeting with no reply since April.

I believe that the BCG are a great society with a tradition of excellent support that is much respected in the world of Chelonia. However in this instance they have gone astray.

Here is information in the public domain that should be shared. It can be translated using a number of free translators.

Check out this statement from the local community in context of the other information. The web translator does a good job.
http://www.cm-collinemetallifere.it/cmportal.asp?id=88

http://lanazione.ilsole24ore.com/gro...lmonella.shtml. There is salmonella because of the dead bodies in the lakes.

http://translate.google.co.uk/transl...ial%26hs%3Dg1m

The forum is particularly interesting of course its only some peoples opinions just like this forum. They seem to care just like this forum.

I have personnaly exchanged with reporters and others that corroborate these stories.

Please do not leave the BCG but come to the AGM and support the debate. Add your voice to the debate with whatever opinion you have.

A final thought, the constitution clearly states that a quorum is 50 eligible members. If less than 50 turn up it would be possible to turn the meeting off and postpone the discussion. So no matter what side you are on please turn up and have your say.

Rom

[romski]

Hey guys if it does not drop you into a translated page. right click, view page info and copy address. Then paste address into browser bar and then search in google. The response should come up with a translate option.

Its not easy but the forum pages are eye openers.

Rom

[EJ]

There is a very good diplomatic reason for not entertaining a point of view.

For those of you who saw my talk at Milton Keynes this year you might remember a member of the audience questioning... I believe it was container size.

That person with the question obviously had a hostile agenda. I answered the questioned and added that it wasn't a good idea to get into the politics.

I keep reading Pauls agenda... I don't see anyone who is a member of the BCG who has a clue offering a rebuttle. A forum such as this would be a good plase for such a thing.

I've tried to research this through various venues but it is too difficult to get any facts... on both ends. I see nothing but speculation and even then it is from one single person.

It might not be an actual conspiracy but it really does seem tainted to the allegiance to one organization or another.

I guess this is not too much different than me questioning the integrity of one organization or another.

Originally Posted by justmeandmytortoise

I am very sad that the BCG do not appear to allow freedom of speech and freedom to ask for clarification when something is clearly wrong. To ‘throw’ a member out for simply doing this is, in my view, very wrong. I am so sorry Paul, but delighted to have you in Just Me and my Tortoise.

Many in Just Me and my Tortoise are appalled by the actions of the BCG and will not be renewing their membership. Others do not want to join the BCG. Very sad as I feel their work outside of CARAPAX has been very good.

The venue they have chosen for the AGM is where the Committee hold their meetings it cannot hold 50 people - are they stopping many going? Why move it Will it not cost more for two venues

Why is the AGM not, as usual ahead of the Symposium, in March

[EJ]

It sounds like you're an actual supporting member of the BCG. You might want to point out that moving the venue would actually create the problem you suggest... not enough participation.

Originally Posted by romski

A final thought, the constitution clearly states that a quorum is 50 eligible members. If less than 50 turn up it would be possible to turn the meeting off and postpone the discussion. So no matter what side you are on please turn up and have your say.

Rom

[Geomyda]

Ed,
Haven't heard from you for a while!
Can I suggest you read the posts more carefully. In Romski's first post on this subject, he provides links to Italian source information. It really is worth a look. You have said before that you struggle to get facts, can I ask where have you looked?
This leads me on to say, that before my membership of the BCG had so disappointingly cut short, I had considered putting your name forward for the Vacant position of Public Relations Officer for the Group. It struck me, that you have many of the qualities they are looking for and the obvious empathy you have for the embattled Committee would would make a good match in the current line up.
Perhaps another paid up member might consider nominating you for this post?

[Geomyda]

[QUOTE=

I've tried to research this through various venues but it is too difficult to get any facts... on both ends.[/QUOTE]

Ed, for your benefit and other members of the British Chelonia Group, who include members of the Committee who regularly use this site:

[justmeandmytortoise]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

Wendy,
You raise a very good point about the size of the Venue, and of course, the additional cost in these tough econonomic times of splitting the AGM, from the ever popular Spring Symposium.
These costs of course, are not just borne by the Group as an additional drain on precious financial resourses, but also by members who now have to have to budget for two potentially expensive weekend meetings just so they can exercise their democratic right to vote and as importantly debate the actions of their Committee.
Perhaps other paid up members would like to comment on these points, and who knows maybe, even a member of the British Chelonia Group COMMITTEE might have the courtesy to explain the reasons for the costly changes in 2010?

I book a hall for Just Me and my Tortoise to meet and the expense of splitting this when we have a small 'committee' meeting would have financial implications I couldn't justify. Not a good financial climate to do so either.

It would be interesting to know why the BCG have decided to spilt these meetings up, but I doubt we will ever know. Don't know how many 'active' members are in the BCG for them to comment, we have under 10 BCG members in Just Me and my Tortoise /Kent and London area.

I really enjoy the BCG Newsletter and am sure they will update all members as to their decision and what they are doing.

[Geomyda]

Wendy,
Maybe one of the BCG committee should answer these questions? There is, at least one whom is regularly on this Forum.
As for the Newsletter of the BCG, since the spring of this year it has singularly failed to answer Questions, accept correspondence and specifically it has excluded at least one of its regional Chelonian group. The Conservation appeal for 2009, "Carapax, home for homeless hatchlings", disappeared from the Newsletter, and most recently, the whole topic has been deleted from the history of the Website!
You might therefore not be surprised that I am not confident they will disclose anything but what the editor wants her audience to hear.
The latest Newsletter has a postal ballot option. I hope that many will use the opportunity to vote NO to the re election of a number of current officers, and lets hope some proper changes can be made in this sad organisation?

[boxman]

I too was denied permanently membership of the BCG for voicing my concerns over the management of the BCG with regard to the CARAPAX venture. Not only this, the entire gloucestershire tortoise group, (3 county tortoises) who have raised thousands for conservation, and who conduct massive health checks for tortoises across the west midlands are denied any advertising in the BCG newsletter simply because I am one of their members. I developed and ran the terrapin sanctuary at 'Secret World' Highbridge Bunham on Sea for several years, and was in a unique position to say whether the CARAPAX idea would work. In 2002 I stated in totally clear terms that the death toll from terrapins unused to pond life would exceed 20% p.a. (i.e. up to 800 animals per year). It would be the terrapin version of The Final Solution. So, sadly, this has been proved correct.
boxman

[romski]

Ed,
I am a proud member of the BCG, I did see your talk and wish it had gone on longer. I was the person that circulated slides at the Spring AGM. I circulated them in my nominated agenda slot on the subject of CARAPAX. Its not unusual to circulate additional information during such occasions. Many of the committee were unaware of the data presented. The President thanked me for the new data and asked for it to be validated. Those slides were compiled with contributions and corrections from many, including ; Anders Rhodin, Alexander Pieh, Jarmo Perala and Mark webb. Extracts from Holger Vetters book were also included. Data from the Charities commission was also used. What was presented was well prepared and scrutinised as much as reasonably possible. A number of people checked the data.

Oh and by the way check this out.
http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk...idiaryNumber=0

I have had no answer to why, at the end of 2009 they have not submitted their annual returns for 2008. Nearly 50 days late.

Taking a personal view of the evidence is not actually difficult. I was able to have an exchange with someone that was in court during the procedings and get their direct view.
When the court met in spring and Dr.Ballasina was asked to vacate the premises Dr.M Zuffi a very well known and respected Zoologist from Pisa University was nominated as technical adviser. Speak to him, he has a similar story.

My links also take you to the local community summary. You will note that in 2005 they took action against CARAPAX for posting misleading information on their site and doing same on TV. Their report aligns also.

Too many stories align, the only exception is that information generated by CARAPAX. In the end our views dont matter, the courts have decided and in the civil case they have sequestered the land and in the criminla case given Dr. Ballasina and his wife a 6 month suspended prison sentence and a 10,000 Euro fine. Thats all in the press cuttings.

BUT

Thats not our gripe, as there is nothing that can be done now. Legally the money donated and animals delivered are long gone and there will be no recourse to the members.

Our gripe is that OUR BCG management is stating that because of advice from the CARAPAX lawyers nothing can be told to the membership.

That Ed, is gowno. You will be aware of the recent murder trial in Italy where a Washington girl was involved, You will be aware that their laws on data exchange are so different to ours. Why the heck then, are the BCG taking advice from lawyers that have differing legal values to ours in the UK. And are paid for by CARAPAX/RANA to look after CARAPAX/RANA interests.

Most of the membership dont even know the extent of the problem. AND up until spring the BCG were still advertising CARAPAX as an appeal.

We know what the truth is we just want honesty from the committee.

We the membership just need to be part of the deal, not talked down to by folks that are losing the respect of our community.

For those that dont know, Paul was ejected because he was too persistent with his questions and for circulating unauthorised pamphlets at the AGM. Patently they kicked him out unfairly and based on incorrect accusations.

They will have a lot of questions to answer. Please join the BCG and come to the AGM.

Please continue keeping keep this dicussion objective and clinical.

Thanks

Rom