lucky Reptile- Bright Sun

[ClareandCo]

51c at 8" - we've not recorded temperatures anywhere as hot as that.

[Kirkie]

Ok but the lamp I was sold did. It also drastically underperformed below the stated output. I'm lucky, I can test these things. Most keepers cant. It seems to me you could get a perfectly good bulb or the one I was sent. You pays your money, you take the chance. Add a solarmeter 6.2 to the LR kit if you intend getting one Paul.

Claire,

The only thing I can say for these lamps with aquatics is that they remain bright and hot long after the UV element has gone. 2 out of 3 turtle boxes ticked. Turtles tend to be on heavily supplimented diets and growingly spending more time in natural sunlight which might give the appearence that its all down to the lamp.

[Kirkie]

This was the response from Lucky Reptile to my lamp readings:

"first of all we are very sorry that you had these problems with your Bright Sun. As I see your results it seems that there happens a mix-up within the lamps we sorted out.
As we realized the problems with the UVB output of the lamps we started the measuring of every single lamp and we made three different classification, ok, reduced UV and without UV. All the lamps under 50% of the specified UVB output we declared as “no UVB”. Our result makes it very likely that a lamp with “no UVB” and “reduced UVB” got mixed up. Even I can promise that we did our best to make no mistake I can’t guarantee you that it didn’t happened.
Any way, we had also the problem, that some stores removed the stickers and sold the cheaper reduced lamps as normal Bright Sun etc."

So they were not producing different output lamps to spec but designating an output strength based on how the lamp performed in testing. And they got
mine wrong. Didn't make me want to rush out and buy more that email.
*

[Gordon]

Thanks Kirkie i will stick with what i,m useing me thinks

[Geomyda]

Originally Posted by Kirkie

This was the response from Lucky Reptile to my lamp readings:

"first of all we are very sorry that you had these problems with your Bright Sun. As I see your results it seems that there happens a mix-up within the lamps we sorted out.
As we realized the problems with the UVB output of the lamps we started the measuring of every single lamp and we made three different classification, ok, reduced UV and without UV. All the lamps under 50% of the specified UVB output we declared as “no UVB”. Our result makes it very likely that a lamp with “no UVB” and “reduced UVB” got mixed up. Even I can promise that we did our best to make no mistake I can’t guarantee you that it didn’t happened.
Any way, we had also the problem, that some stores removed the stickers and sold the cheaper reduced lamps as normal Bright Sun etc."

So they were not producing different output lamps to spec but designating an output strength based on how the lamp performed in testing. And they got
mine wrong. Didn't make me want to rush out and buy more that email.
*

It would be good to hear from the European hobbyists whom are apparently successfully using these products?
I have not got a UV solar meter, and prefer to allow other technically minded folks to do this. However, I do observe the results and from years of experience keeping these animals can recognise when they work well.
like you, I use a range of UVB emitting devices including Osram ultra vitalux bulbs. The application, varies from enclosure to enclosure.

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by ClareandCo

£50 a year less to run! I don't quite understand this.

Ours is only on the turtles' indoor pond from October - March (subject to weather conditions) and then only obviously during the day.

Based on that and the average kilowatt price how much would the T5 cost per annum?

Irrespective of the area it heats the turtles all "pile up" on top of one another anyway.

Where's Graham when you need him?

it's possibly because you'd need to buy two during that period as they don't last long for producing useful UVB but, if you have a T5 you would also need a heat source too so two things to run

[Alan1]

Originally Posted by Kirkie

Ok but the lamp I was sold did. It also drastically underperformed below the stated output. I'm lucky, I can test these things. Most keepers cant. It seems to me you could get a perfectly good bulb or the one I was sent. You pays your money, you take the chance. Add a solarmeter 6.2 to the LR kit if you intend getting one Paul.

I remember when you got that and tried it but there was also someone else who had tested them, not just the LR bulbs but other Halides, Megaray I think maybe? Was it Jonathan or maybe Frances Baines? Can't remember but the outcome was that mostly, all the metal halides are good for a couple of months and then deteriorate rapidly

[Kirkie]

Originally Posted by Geomyda

It would be good to hear from the European hobbyists whom are apparently successfully using these products?
I have not got a UV solar meter, and prefer to allow other technically minded folks to do this. However, I do observe the results and from years of experience keeping these animals can recognise when they work well.
like you, I use a range of UVB emitting devices including Osram ultra vitalux bulbs. The application, varies from enclosure to enclosure.

I'd be interested to hear how the sucess of these lamps are gauged by other hobbyists.

I'm at the point of using the Osram for virtually all applications. Now I have a way of toning it down depending on species. It remains the one bulb (aside from the original 160w megaray MVB) that performs as expected and with conformity across bulbs. If they were to produce a 100-160 watt bulb they'd clean up. Hey, Osram have been in the bulb game a long time.

Halides have a place but they're not ready yet I feel. The Megaray metal halide I had was about the best reptile bulb I'd seen (in the short time it actually lit) but it was a star that shone too brightly and alas they couldn't find a ballast to match it.

[romski]

Thanks for posting the numbers, I could not find them on the site.

The numbers look good. The issue for me would be consistency. Lamps dont have an output that is linear with time and I would be interested if to see a histogram for performance. If possible I would also like to see independent readings.

Whilst Kirkie has had one bad experience the response he received hints that the manufacture of these units has a production inconsistency that impacts performance. In itself this is not a problem and this is often seen in other related industies. The problem to me was that it was not managed from the outset by the Quality Assurance department. In addition if there is a problem in initial output consistency I would ask is there also an issue in the variability of maintained output?
Let 10 lamps be randomly picked and tested over a year then a real answer can be given.

In a similar discussion on another site I posted;-

Before I post I would like to state I have no affiliation with any company.

A variation of lamp quality between units is probably because of the different business models used by manufacturers.
Some suppliers buy prebuilt tubes and add their own labels, I suspect others hold some design input and subcontract the manufacture, whilst others are in control of the whole design and manufacture loop. The extent of product control drives quality.

I have been involved with items built against design and know that there may be many bidders to get the contract to build at best price. Over years as the contract develops, the light tubes will go through obsolescence, manufacturing process change or source of material change. So as the item continues to meet the original specification some of its components or attributes may change in ways not originally foreseen or specified. The older a design gets the more scope for cock-up there is.

For lamps, glass thickness can change; its chemical properties may change thus its transmissivity. Even the manufacturing process will have an effect. Material might change completely say from crystal to glass.
The phosphor may be specified to perform at a given wavelength and a change may continue to give that performance but modify characteristics at another wavelength in a way that's unhelpful. The chances are the Quality Assurance process will miss it because it's unexpected and the acceptance test process is not geared for it.
If the lamp supplier does not have direct control of these parameters then it is probable that variability in quality will happen.

The provision of UV through an unknown lamp performance to animals whose clinical UV requirements are not understood seems bizarre to me. YET we all do it. Unless you actually measure light output you simply don't know what's illuminating your animals. How on earth has judgment been made as to what's needed in terms of power and duration of UV light.

The best we can do is provision a light source that can provide irradiation to those levels measured in the field when the animals are out and about. This is not necessarily at midday. Only now is work emerging that is starting such a knowledge baseline.

For myself I have chosen the Arcadia lamps because they are made in-house in Germany under their own full quality control. Their performance is quoted after a 100 hour burn in. Power output is specified (uw/sqcm) not some mystical percentage figure that can't be nailed down. I am advised that they are stable for a year. I have settled on the Arcadia 6% T5 tube as it gives the UVb output level I believe my animals experience in the wild.
Loads of UV is not the crux of the matter. The 6% lamp also spreads light well into the valuable UVa band and indeed into the broader light spectrum. That's why it's so bright.

I did look at other manufacturers before making my personal choice and I did find this link interesting.
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/exo_terra_t ... _movie.php

I'm happy to be corrected if my facts are misstated.


In the past the choice of lamp has had to be made based on inadequate information at best.

Thankfully as more information surfaces and we get to understand it, then as we prod suppliers with better questions and requests then product information and the product will evolve.

I think we are just starting.

[Kirkie]

I agree Rom. I had a bad experience and in depth bench tests of a number of units might prove otherwise but most of us want a lamp that has had this done and operates to the stated results. The retailler I got my lamp from wasn't even aware it came in different versions!*

I cannot recommend this lamp and I've lost so much faith in the producer that I'm unwilling to give it another try.