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Old 02-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #11
Merlin M
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Originally Posted by mediterraneansuze View Post
I suppose we must also remember that in the med, as the summer goes on the supply of food dwindles to nothing , so by July and August there's little or no food left. So how do our continuous supply of food affect growth. So in the wild they are not eating none stop all year round, and not growing all year round, does this make a difference, I hibernate mine, so they have that break from eating and growing, which they have evolved to do in the wild, does this have any effect on on how well the shell grows. I just wonder if all year round eating and growing is not good for shell growth.( I expect this will open a huge can of worms) I'm not saying it is or it isn't , I'm just wondering, that's all.
that is very interesting...
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:11 AM   #12
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Thanks. I get it now!
In the wild they would graze, that seems to be what Darwin does. He eats, wanders around, sleeps, eats a bit more.
Having said that, my dog does the same. But, since I've had him, he was 2 and a rescue, he's never had any other dog or anything that may take his food. He's always eaten a bit usually the meaty chunks then gone back to it later.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:06 PM   #13
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i think its a case of getting the wet/dry balance right, horsfields are supposed to not like it damp (or not tolerate damp) but some will happily roam and graze when its raining, so the balance of being warm and damp as apose to cold and damp. Mine go through periods of not eating or not eating very much, then go through periods of eating everything as much as they can, lilly being my first tortoise is 15cm (when i last weighed her) and she will be 5 years on 15th September, i think she is large for her age but has a smooth shell, when i first got her i didnt know about humidity and thought i needed to keep the soil bone dry until i learnt through experience along the way, however it hasnt had any bad effects on her, Tyler i got at 3 months (well i hapen to think she was a lot younger than that but have stuck with 3)and she has a slight bumpiness but not that much which i know will smooth out as she grows, and i am much more aware of the importance of humidity and getting the balance of wet/dry right, she has grown fast in the 17 months ive had her, she was 4cm when i got her and is now 9cm (last time i measured her) weight of 20g to 170gms in 17 months, but i am not concerned about it. I think as long as they are happy and healthy, good diet, getting the balance right etc then it doesnt really matter how fast they grow x
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #14
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If you consider other animals, their young all grow fast and soon become independent. Most animals have the protection of their parents until they can defend themselves or fly/run to evade capture. Tortoises, although faster than most people think, could not out run a crow for example. Their only defense is their shell and camouflage. The shell can easily be penetrated by a bird or chewed by a fox/badger etc. Their camouflage only protects if they don't break cover and has minimal effect against ground dwelling animals like snakes and rats.
So the best form of defense is to grow to such proportions that the number of predators is reduced by the very fact that they can no longer pick up the animal or penetrate the shell as easily. A six inch tortoise is unlikely to be eaten by a crow. Many birds, seagulls, crows etc have learned to pick up and drop shelled animals from heights to crack open the shell. Even blackbirds and thrushes could eat a hatchling by smashing the shell open on a rock in the same way they open snails. So nature has provided them with protection just like it has for all other animals. So, to restrict food and grow them slowly is going against nature and therefore can't be beneficial to the well being of the animal in the long term.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
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Not really sure why I posted this in this section. I was very tired last night and have only just noticed where I put it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:58 PM   #16
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It certainly makes more survival sense to grow faster than slower. So where did this idea to grow them slowly come from I wonder.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #17
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It certainly makes more survival sense to grow faster than slower. So where did this idea to grow them slowly come from I wonder.
That will be the "experts" who found a young naturally grown large tortoise that had pyramiding. They assumed the fast growth had caused the deformity and decided all torts must grow slowly. It probably happened something like that anyway.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:27 PM   #18
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I suppose we must also remember that in the med, as the summer goes on the supply of food dwindles to nothing , so by July and August there's little or no food left. So how do our continuous supply of food affect growth. So in the wild they are not eating none stop all year round, and not growing all year round, does this make a difference, I hibernate mine, so they have that break from eating and growing, which they have evolved to do in the wild, does this have any effect on on how well the shell grows. I just wonder if all year round eating and growing is not good for shell growth.( I expect this will open a huge can of worms) I'm not saying it is or it isn't , I'm just wondering, that's all.

I agree totally here, in the wild they eat far less than tortoises in captivity. Eating foods as the seasons change. And some months there will be no foods.
This is why tortoises in captivity are always far larger than wild. Also a lot of keepers don't hibernate, so again they are eating foods when in a normal year for wild tortoises they wouldn't eat.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:39 PM   #19
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Not really sure why I posted this in this section. I was very tired last night and have only just noticed where I put it.
its ok Wendy we forgive you, i did wonder why you posted in this thread, but you got the response anyway so doesnt matter lol x
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:43 PM   #20
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yes going by the size of lilly (captive bred) who is approx 5 years and 15cm compared to Roxy (probably wildcaught) who is just below 12cm and is approx 5-6 years old, first year of hibernation of lilly last year (my choice) so she hadnt been hibernated for 4 years, she did, however, slow down on eating through the winter months, but i agree torts that eat through the winter and are not hibernated will be much larger than torts hibernated through the winter x
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