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Old 18-05-2011, 08:38 PM   #31
EJ
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If you watch the behavior of the 2 tortoises... I'll bet one is shyer and more reserved than the other. I'll bet one basks more than the other. I'll bet one eats more than the other... these are behavioral traits.

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I have the same two Boettgeri one larger the much smaller more smooth both kept the same for 5 year's. I fed what they needed when the temp's were good/up and active.
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Old 19-05-2011, 11:28 PM   #32
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It's worrying how people use the Jackson Ratio as a "well its the right size for the weight so that must be ok" It just doesn't work like that(IMO). The whole idea of the jackson ratio is that it is used to work out wether a tortoise of a certain species is of the right weight and size for hibernation or not, although it can also help to identify torts that are of a low weight for their size through illness or other problems too
A hatchling Hermann's when first hatched can weigh anything from 6-7 grams when born to a wopping 16-17 grams (from my own experience) and has alot to do with size of the parents (mainly mum from personal experience). A hatchling (from many reliabl web sites) should put on no more then 1-2 grams a month for at least the first couple of year of its life to help aid smooth slow growth. So it would make sense to me that people actually worked out the correct weight of their young Hermann's by adding the 1-2 grams for every month of its life plus its hatch weight rather then going by the "Jackson Ratio Chart" as this would give a more detailed picture of wether or not they are growing too quickly or not.
Just My own opinion of course!
But maybe its some thing that someone could look into making like the Jackson ratio so members could map out the correct weight gain for their very young torts.
I have herd of several breeders now that actually give with their hatchlings when sold a chart showing the hatch weight of the tort with the expected weight gain on it so that the new owners has something to go on and try to adear too. Its a steep learning curve sometimes taking on such a young tortoise and even with the best researchand intentions in the world its still easy to run into problems........just like people do that have been keeping torts for oodles of years do occasionally too, this is because husbandry ideas are always on the change and so is feeding ideas too,some work, some don't, its all trial and error kind of

Only just caught up on this thread!
I was given a 'Jackson Ratio for hatchlings under 6 months old.

This goes from 35-90mm carapace length and 10-150gm weight!
Is this an authentic chart?If it is and it's for hatchlings 0-6 months,then why are such figures even on it?

Can anyone illuminate me as to where this'hand drawn'chart originated?
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Old 19-05-2011, 11:48 PM   #33
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Oliphant Jackson was one of the first Herp/reptile specialist vets in the UK. He came up with an average weight to length ratio for Med tortoises. The basis of his ratio was Hermans and Greek tortoises.

I would love to say more...

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Originally Posted by shellonia View Post
Only just caught up on this thread!
I was given a 'Jackson Ratio for hatchlings under 6 months old.

This goes from 35-90mm carapace length and 10-150gm weight!
Is this an authentic chart?If it is and it's for hatchlings 0-6 months,then why are such figures even on it?

Can anyone illuminate me as to where this'hand drawn'chart originated?
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Old 11-06-2011, 10:39 PM   #34
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You want to slow down the growth rate... lower the average temperatures... pretty simple.
They've had a basking spot of 29 degrees for over 3 months with this aim. I'm not prepared to lower it cos they are digesting well but not sure they will if its any lower. They will eat before their light comes on when the ambient temperature is 17! I didnt want to say this as newbies might think this was optimal. I'm just trying to slow them down a bit-but its not working!
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Old 14-06-2011, 11:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by 16 shells View Post
I have the same two Boettgeri one larger the much smaller more smooth both kept the same for 5 year's. I fed what they needed when the temp's were good/up and active.
Boettgeri as a group have a massive variation in size,colouring,and shape! All my Hermanns within my herd are of different size and shapes,for example two of my UK bred females are of the same age approx 6 years old, and there is a huge difference in size! Bessie the much larger female,i know her history, and her mother (as i've stated before on this forum) is an enormous 13" wild caught Boettgeri her age is estimated at around 100 years old(which leads to the question do tortoises ever really stop growing?) my other 6 year old,'Podge' she is very small and i dont know her history.As i understand Boettgeri variation is down to the area's they originated from,Bulgarian being the largest,but surely with decades of massive importation and captive breeding many true types must however be lost? what i believe we have now is a mixture of various sub-species that have been imported and bred together over many years and this counts for the massive diversity within Boettgeri.
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