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Old 18-05-2011, 03:35 PM   #21
Gem
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The Jacksons ratio was worked out specificly for Hermans and Greeks. It is also intended to be a guide and not a specific regime.

The ratio is based on size and weight. Age does not factor in at all.

Developement is most directly dependent on temperature and nutritional input. The actual growth will depend on this.

So Ed in your opinion would it still work ok with a tortoise that had a bad pyramided shell

Or would you say that a T.H.B that was only 7 month old and weighed the correct size and weight on the Jackson ratio be healthy say 100 grams and 80mm in length
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Old 18-05-2011, 03:50 PM   #22
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Whether a shell is pyramided or not should not make much of a difference because you are using SCL and weight.

I don't have the ratio in front of me so can't comment on the rest.

Just from looking at the numbers it would seem that 100g is a pretty healthy weight for a 80mm Testudo.


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So Ed in your opinion would it still work ok with a tortoise that had a bad pyramided shell

Or would you say that a T.H.B that was only 7 month old and weighed the correct size and weight on the Jackson ratio be healthy say 100 grams and 80mm in length
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Old 18-05-2011, 04:07 PM   #23
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Whether a shell is pyramided or not should not make much of a difference because you are using SCL and weight.

I don't have the ratio in front of me so can't comment on the rest.

Just from looking at the numbers it would seem that 100g is a pretty healthy weight for a 80mm Testudo.
even for a 7 month old Hermanns
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Old 18-05-2011, 04:17 PM   #24
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George the Eastern Hermann is a mere 58g and was 2 in March this year. I recon he is small but thats fine.
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Old 18-05-2011, 04:24 PM   #25
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Once again... age has nothing to do with growth and development in a reptile... until it reaches full size.

Extreme example... you can raise a snake(a reptile) from hatchling to reproductive adult in a year. I raised an Egyptian Tortoise from hatchling to reproductive adult in 4 years. A friend raise a Sulcata from hatchling to reproductive adult in 2 years. These are extremes but do illustrate the point.

Flip side... I have a 4 year old leopard that is 3 inches. I have a 4 inch Spider tortoise that is near 10 years old. I also have some Stars that are 5 inches at 10 years old. I also have a leopard that is near 25 years old on only 16 inches scl... it's mother was over 26 inches SCL.

The point... totally temperature and nutritional input dependent.

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even for a 7 month old Hermanns
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Old 18-05-2011, 04:58 PM   #26
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Do we think that genetics and the size and weight of the tortoise when it hatched might also have an influence on growth rate?

One of my young hermanns has always been bigger than others the same age and that one still seems to be growing quicker than them. It is showing signs of catching up with tortoises that are a few years older. And that one also has smoother growth.
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Old 18-05-2011, 05:10 PM   #27
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Genetics is always going to have an effect on the phenotype... it's a relative thing. Again... behavior is also a factor in development if the tortoise is in a group and you are comparing them to siblings or tortoises of similar. Behavior is also a factor in the general development of a tortoise.

Environment and nutrition are the main factors in the development of a reptile.

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Do we think that genetics and the size and weight of the tortoise when it hatched might also have an influence on growth rate?

One of my young hermanns has always been bigger than others the same age and that one still seems to be growing quicker than them. It is showing signs of catching up with tortoises that are a few years older. And that one also has smoother growth.
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Old 18-05-2011, 05:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozric Jonathan View Post
Do we think that genetics and the size and weight of the tortoise when it hatched might also have an influence on growth rate?

One of my young hermanns has always been bigger than others the same age and that one still seems to be growing quicker than them. It is showing signs of catching up with tortoises that are a few years older. And that one also has smoother growth.
I have the same two Boettgeri one larger the much smaller more smooth both kept the same for 5 year's. I fed what they needed when the temp's were good/up and active.
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Old 18-05-2011, 08:25 PM   #29
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I'm really happy with (and quite proud!) of my hatchlings cos they are beatiful specimins-the 18 month old bred by my mum by a younger female (6 years I think) weighs nearly 300gm, and despite having 4 females and a number of Hermanns hatchlings together, the ones from the same mother this year are significantly bigger again. We thought 2 years ago that maybe she was big because she didnt have to 'compete' for food but obviously thats not it-must be genetic.
I'm fine with their weights as its spot on with the SCL length which, as people have said, is all that matters with reptiles-sounds silly, I just wanted them to be small for a bit longer!! They look like 4 year olds that I've seen from people at the BCG!
I had read/heard with hatchlings that ideally 3gm a month is 'right'.

Having said that, the biggest female has had the smallest hatchlings and one who is not the nicest looking specimin has produced the 'prettiest' hatchlings (eg the mother has a small head, the hatchlings have big heads with really big eyes and are particualrly responsive when their mother is very shy and likes to keep away from the rest of the creep. Is that the right word? I've forgotten)
If photobucket was easier I would upload photos as they are so lovely! (sisters to Touies babies!)
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Old 18-05-2011, 08:37 PM   #30
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You want to slow down the growth rate... lower the average temperatures... pretty simple.

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I'm really happy with (and quite proud!) of my hatchlings cos they are beatiful specimins-the 18 month old bred by my mum by a younger female (6 years I think) weighs nearly 300gm, and despite having 4 females and a number of Hermanns hatchlings together, the ones from the same mother this year are significantly bigger again. We thought 2 years ago that maybe she was big because she didnt have to 'compete' for food but obviously thats not it-must be genetic.
I'm fine with their weights as its spot on with the SCL length which, as people have said, is all that matters with reptiles-sounds silly, I just wanted them to be small for a bit longer!! They look like 4 year olds that I've seen from people at the BCG!
I had read/heard with hatchlings that ideally 3gm a month is 'right'.

Having said that, the biggest female has had the smallest hatchlings and one who is not the nicest looking specimin has produced the 'prettiest' hatchlings (eg the mother has a small head, the hatchlings have big heads with really big eyes and are particualrly responsive when their mother is very shy and likes to keep away from the rest of the creep. Is that the right word? I've forgotten)
If photobucket was easier I would upload photos as they are so lovely! (sisters to Touies babies!)
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