Is it wrong to keep TGG with TGI?

[sandy]

Well one reasonably well known keeper on the BCG used to mix all his tortoises. He did it one
too many times. He now has very few tortoises left, which he seperates now. You take the choice
and pay the price.

[helen1]

Sorry, am not awake, TGG and TGI...MISSED THAT

[helen1]

Was there a sick tortoise? What was the infection they all got? Did this tortoise bring it in?

[EJ]

This is so seriously impressive... someone who researches and seems to understand.

Originally Posted by helen1

As far as subspecies go, to give an example from a thread last week....

TG Perseses(sp) from 2002 to now was named as a seperate subspecies to TG Buxtoni, DNA cannot seperate the groups so they are both now classified as TGBuxtoni.

Which torts do you wish to mix?

[wildlifewarrior]

sorry for interupting, but i thought Ej was slightly rude in the last post. "This is so seriously impressive... someone who researches and seems to understand. "
the tone in which you say this in seems to make me think that as the rest have not agreed completely with you then therefore they must be wrong and unable to understand or grasp the concerpt which you are saying.....then again what do i no i am only a 17 year old . lol

i don't get the reason for the pathogen things,,,thought this was about torts not bugs lol.

personally mixing subspeices seems in most cases to be done becuase the person wants more than one type and wants them to live together as it looks better. this is fine i mean just look at fish, people kept goldfish, then realised they cud be kept with kois and shurbinkins and such, until one gets stressed and they get one spot or one is an expection to the rule and eats the smaller fish.

snakes may be more dangerous than torts but are eaiser to keep and require less care but i wud not want to mix the sub species wof them with eachother. it is interesting to know if certian ones can live with eachother and you never truley know until you put it in pratice....but then you have to ask ur self why keep two different torts together when they can live fine on there own and the only risk they have is by putting the 2 togther.

we all know reptiles are good at masking there illnesses so if one is stressed out but is not showing it then it cud lead to problems. then agaian they both might live completey normal live and happy healthy lives, but why not just keep the 2 seperate,ani't gonna harm them.

i keep different types of treefrogs that cud live to gether aswell as stickinsects and sandboas....but why mix them?

[EJ]

This is actually a wonderful post because it shows how information can be taken out of context in a negative manner.

Helen1 is a friend and keyed onto an improtant point.

I would have worded it differently had it been a poster that I had not been corresponding with.

Mixing species has nothing to do with a purpose. Somebody likes different tortoises and would like to keep them as pets. It's like keeping different dogs or cats. They are pets and nothing more.

There are many people who take it to a different level... that's us.

Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

sorry for interupting, but i thought Ej was slightly rude in the last post. "This is so seriously impressive... someone who researches and seems to understand. "
the tone in which you say this in seems to make me think that as the rest have not agreed completely with you then therefore they must be wrong and unable to understand or grasp the concerpt which you are saying.....then again what do i no i am only a 17 year old . lol

i don't get the reason for the pathogen things,,,thought this was about torts not bugs lol.

personally mixing subspeices seems in most cases to be done becuase the person wants more than one type and wants them to live together as it looks better. this is fine i mean just look at fish, people kept goldfish, then realised they cud be kept with kois and shurbinkins and such, until one gets stressed and they get one spot or one is an expection to the rule and eats the smaller fish.

snakes may be more dangerous than torts but are eaiser to keep and require less care but i wud not want to mix the sub species wof them with eachother. it is interesting to know if certian ones can live with eachother and you never truley know until you put it in pratice....but then you have to ask ur self why keep two different torts together when they can live fine on there own and the only risk they have is by putting the 2 togther.

we all know reptiles are good at masking there illnesses so if one is stressed out but is not showing it then it cud lead to problems. then agaian they both might live completey normal live and happy healthy lives, but why not just keep the 2 seperate,ani't gonna harm them.

i keep different types of treefrogs that cud live to gether aswell as stickinsects and sandboas....but why mix them?

[gtm]

I can't see a problem with keeping different 'sub species' of GST's together. In the wild their respective ranges meet and they can and do interact and breed. I read somewhere that if you are planning to breed ensure the female is a bigger 'subspecies' in order to avoid egg compaction - ie ibera. You would need to do the usual quarantine when introducing a new tortoise to avoid transmission of diseases etc.

[jo__]

I personally would not mix the two... Its fair enough they may meet in the wild, but it is more likely they will meet tortoises of their same subspecies- so personally i fink we should keep it that way
Jo x

[finchy]

This subject is of particular interest to me as I have two females, one TGG and one TGI that have lived together for 15 years +. I have to say that there have never been any signs of problems or illness.

After reading previous posts on this site it seems that the majority of people would not do this.

Having read Edd’s comments on this thread I do agree with his argument. After all, if you mix a TGG that is from Algeria with a TGG that comes from spain, there will be more risk than keeping a TGG and TGI together that have been mixed for 15 Years.

Thinking logically about it, a pathogen is not going to care about a name a human has given to an animal. Factors such as the immune system and what diseases the animal has been exposed to in the past would seem to be much more important.

If I were going to buy two new torts now or trying to breed them I would be getting two of the same sub-species. At the moment I don’t think I will be rushing to split the TGI and TGG up. Having said that, I’m no expert in this so I could be completely wrong, but on balance it seems the best thing to do.

[EJ]

There are many more people like yourself that keep tortoises that don't have a clue about this culture. They have pet tortoises... they keep them together... and they don't care what the race or species is. They have been doing this for umteen years and there are many.

It is when you get anal that it really matters.

A name was created by people. Do you really think the animal cares one way or the other?

Originally Posted by finchy

This subject is of particular interest to me as I have two females, one TGG and one TGI that have lived together for 15 years +. I have to say that there have never been any signs of problems or illness.

After reading previous posts on this site it seems that the majority of people would not do this.

Having read Edd’s comments on this thread I do agree with his argument. After all, if you mix a TGG that is from Algeria with a TGG that comes from spain, there will be more risk than keeping a TGG and TGI together that have been mixed for 15 Years.

Thinking logically about it, a pathogen is not going to care about a name a human has given to an animal. Factors such as the immune system and what diseases the animal has been exposed to in the past would seem to be much more important.

If I were going to buy two new torts now or trying to breed them I would be getting two of the same sub-species. At the moment I don’t think I will be rushing to split the TGI and TGG up. Having said that, I’m no expert in this so I could be completely wrong, but on balance it seems the best thing to do.