df
 

I have decided to re-do these diagrams and also include Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis this time.

TESTUDO HERMANNI BOETTGERI/TESTUDO HERMANNI HERCEGOVINENSIS/TESTUDO HERMANNI HERMANNI

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step5.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step6.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/step7.jpg

Testudo Hermanni Hermanni:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...femalethh1.jpg


Testudo hermanni boettgeri
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...oeetplast1.jpg


Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...cris/thhh1.jpg

thanks m8 that is very interesting info there ..
luv becks
thanks for reposting it xxxxxx

thanks i was looking for diferences between sub species

although andy believes that t.hermanni botegeri has to be closly looked at because there
is a lot of differences between size shape and colour
worth a read on xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx web site
very interresting!!!

thanks for that

This is a very OLD diagram I had made.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/ok.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...ris/fekker.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/Loonacris/asd.jpg

From -HermanniChris23


Well I promised you all some new diagrams on how to differentiate the subspecies of Hermanns Tortoises (Testudo hermanni) and after hours of trying to get my tortoises to cooperate, I took good pics and wrote detailed descriptions on them. Here you go and lets make this a STICKY!! :D

TESTUDO HERMANNI BOETTGERI VS. TESTUDO HERMANNI HERMANNI

Many people find it quite difficult to differentiate the eastern and western subspecies of the Hermanns tortoise (Testudo hermanni). For years it was believed that the Western race (Testudo hermanni hermanni) was separated from the Eastern race (Testudo hermanni boettgeri) by characteristics like a divided suprecaudal shield or the jet black bands on the plastron. While these features can help, it is by no means limited to this as both subspecies can exhibit them. Today all over the world "breeders" and dealers offer hermanns tortoises for sale. Many are captive bred babies while others are imported wild caught animals which are loaded with parasites. Lately individuals offer "western hermanns tortoises" for sale and more than 9 times out 10 they are not the real thing. In the following diagrams I illustrate through photos of my own tortoises how to properly tell the difference between the 2 subspecies. Just because your tortoise has a lot of black on the plastron does not mean it's a western hermanns tortoise!!

Enjoy everyone! 8)
Sincerely,
Chris Leone


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram1.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram2.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram4.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram7.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram6.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram5.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...annigram10.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram9.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...mannigram8.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25...annigram11.jpg

For more information on this subject please read and view the original thread about this that I posted which is a sticky at the top of this forum. Included in that thread is a diagram using hatchlings. You may also view my online photo album featuring all of my turtles and tortoises at: http://community.webshots.com/user/loon1103

Great info yet again,thx,Yvette

Hi
Thanks for that. It was so usefull. I pick my THB up on Sunday. I cant wait.

Jo :)

Hi :D

Its absolutely brilliant , thanks, I have 2 little thb`s and its great to see older thb`s and the clear difference between thb`s and thh.

\thanks for sharing the wonderful pix :D

you are all very welcome. :D
I am in the process of writing a book based on my experiences with THB and THH that will hopefully be published this year.

Let me know when its published an I will get a copy to read. :D

hi karen :D

have a good look through our weeds section

it details both weeds and flowers and tort friendly plants :D

:D That was tres useful can tell one from the other now, easier than my spurs, had to ask even after looking at info

Thanks

easter vs western hermans
 

Hi,
many thanks for these great pictures. I am still struggling with identifying mine. Would a vet be able to tell me which sub species they are? You also mentioned something about publishing a book this year. Is this already available?
Thanks
Julia

hi julia :D

why dont you put some pictures in the id section

im sure some one will be able to help you identify the sub species :D

Many thanks, I didn't even know there was such a section. Will put some in there.
Julia

how is your book coming along chris, would be a great read, il be ordering my copy when u get published :D

hi i have 3 herman tortoises SHERMAN SHERMAINE AND SHELLY ive just looked at there paper work and all it says is testudo hermanni
but one that we hope is a girl is slightly lighter than the other girl :?: both aged 2
sherman we know is male he is 4 and looks like all herman pictures
what is the best age to sex the hopefully girls and what age should they be before i put them in with sherman.
many thanks laura........

Post pics on ID and SEXING.

still not sure what ive got i think 2 hermanni hermanni 1 the other sort
i will send pics in
lat 2 i got brought them togrther but one was lighter coulor in the legs face etc
and slightly smaller than the other one

Laura, send the pics right over and I'll be able to tell you what they are, just make sure you get a plastron and head shot for me. :D
-Chris

thanks chris i will send pics over when my daughter comes over
as i dont know how to

hi chris here are the pics hope there ok
http://www.postimage.org/aVw6FVJ.jpg
sherman age 4

http://www.postimage.org/aVw7nPi.jpg
shelly age 2

http://www.postimage.org/aVw8OCr.jpg
shermaine age 2

http://www.postimage.org/aVwabVr.jpg
sherman

http://www.postimage.org/aVwbWFJ.jpg
shelly

http://www.postimage.org/aVwcR20.jpg
shermaine

chris the irst pic is sherman age 4 then shelly age 2
i was bound to make a mess of it :lol:

Ace Thanks I have come to the conclusion that little Pip is a THB....well I hope so but when i get some clear pics ill ask again!
Great help cheersX

Thanks that was excellent, so I just have to remember that thh have a longer femoral seam than pectoral :D
So I would say Sherman is a thb and Shelly is a thh. Am I right?

Laura actually messed up the first 2 names Michelle :D The first picture is Shelly and the second is Sherman. Shelly and Shermaine are T.h. boettgeri. Sherman is a T.h.hermanni, so you did get it right. :D

Danny

great pictures everyone but im still confused and unsure still at what subspecies my wilma is she has all the characteristics of the boettgeri however she has the yellow patch just below and behind the eye that the hermanni hermanni has i carnt put photos up yet but as soon as i can iwill its all confusing to me i would have said personally she was boettgeri but the yellow patch has threw me

boettgeri often has these yellow patches aswell I believe, just more common in the hermanni :D
Alex

Hi great info u put up there, i think i have a thh because all the pics match up, i was just wondering would it be ok to have a thh with a thb? coz i was thinking of getting a new tort but he is a thb and wasnt sure if he would bully my thh coz of the size difference, any info would be appreciated, thanks:)

Tracy can you post pictures of your tortoise? It can be quite tricky to tell the different subspecies apart and there are not that many of the THH around. Chris or Danny will be able to tell you for definite.

I don't think that the THH and THB should be kept together and most people on this forum probably agree with that, but not everyone. The THH and THB must not be allowed to breed.

hiya, thanks for all the info.,it made me go and have a look at my 4. it looks like i have 3thb & 1 what i think is thh. could you please tell me why thay souldnt live to-gether or breed,as harry my 5year old thb is always trying to mate sally who is also 5 and i think is a thh? thanks

Hi, if a THH and THB breed then the offspring are hybrids. My belief is that we should preserve the differences between the two subspecies, whereas keeping them together and letting them breed has the opposite effect. It is also suggested that the fertility of hybrids is less.

Not everyone agrees. I like the smaller and more brightly coloured THH and think that their special charateristics should be kept both in captivity and in the wild.

Would be great to see photos of your tortoises! You would know for sure if Sally is a THH or not if you posted some photos of her including underside. There are not all that many THH in the UK.

i will post some pics when my son shows me how to do it. George my tort that has just pasted away was 100% thh and the nices, cutes little tort that i have ever seen, god bless him. oh where do i post the pics??

Sorry to hear that George has passed away.

Best place to post would be the Identification / Sexing board or the pictures one maybe.

Can you let me know if you have a THH breeder in your area? Not actually looking for more right now, but you never know!

the ues to be, only iam not sure if is still breeding them but i will do my best to find out for you. do you only have THH ? if so how many & how old are thay ?

I refreshed this thread with NEW DIAGRAMS, this time I included T. h. hercegovinensis.

Can the peeps in the know take a look at these two sets of pics and tell me what they think are the sub species once and for all, As I am in two minds ree these two.

Many thanks

Dawn

These are all Colin

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...ada/Colin1.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...ada/Colin2.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...ada/Colin3.jpg

And here is Matilda

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...a/Matilda1.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...a/Matilda2.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...a/Matilda3.jpg

Dawn it will be better if u post those pics in the id/sexing part, u will get more response there :)