Tortoies Trust Study Artificial Lights
 

Where are all the comments then?

Sorry Jon, it wasn't copied from their forum it was an e-mail that came through to me. I started to read it but must confess got busy & haven't got back to finishing it yet! :)

No need to apologize. I'm sort of in a similar position, hoping someone would summarize it for me. Hence my post trying to promt someone to do that!

I shall resolve to read it through....soon

I have flicked through it very quickly and from the bit I took in was artificial lighting is no good for our animals :shock::shock::shock::shock:
Now I'm no brain surgeon but surely that doesn't take a lot of work that one out:)

I too skimmed through it due to its length!!
It basically says that artificial lighting\uv still has a long way to go to do the same job as the sun.

OK so we get them outdoors as much as we can so long as it's adequately warm etc.

I wonder what marvelous new outdoor habitat ideas the TT is going to share with us? Sounds almost too good to be true - no huge expense or energy needs etc.

http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/climateframe.html

Not blowing my own trumpet but its not dissimilar to setups I use. My tortoises and box turtles have been outside since March. Finding materials which allow UVB through isn't easy but if the enclosed space allows them to get up to a sufficient body temperature they venture out into the open areas anyway.

Same here Dave:0)
Great to see you posting again.

Hello Sandy.

It is a good solution that the TT have come up with in the link I posted.
Having flexability in the design is key so you can add and remove shade and ventilation elements. One of my initial experiments in this kind of setup hit 47C air temperature in direct sunlight in March so needed some adaptation but the methods in the article are very sound.

I've "accidently" (couldnt find them in the autumn) hibernated tortoises outdoors in this kind of "giant coldframe" set up. Deep, deep substrate areas are needed so they can burrow and thermoregulate themselves.

They know what to do naturally:0)
Mine just bury down in the GH soil:0)

Very interesting

I've been having a look around today and Lumisol Clear polythene, sold as a polytunnel covering is "UV open" and would seem to allow 70-90% of UVB to pass through it. This coupled with its thermic qualities make this something worth considering. Its not too expensive either.

The best UVB allowance I've had from a polythene was about 40%.

This looks like it's got the advantages of the little UV transmitting coldframes I use but without the huge expense and without the other disadvantages that they have.

Since my tortoises could do with more space outside I'm going to study this in detail and consider adding one of these to what I've got already. My partner says the garden looks like a shanty town already, so I might as well make it even more of one!

Yeah, mine arent as neat and tidy as the TT ones. I've been thinking about this over the last few years and I'm prepared to forego a few dorment days when the temperatures just dont get high enough over time indoors.

The panels in that article dont seem to seal the area, I've found enclosed areas with sides, cutting down air flow and wind chill factor to be the thing for the spring and autumn. In summer you can whip the roof off and use mesh in its place, meaning you dont have to seal off areas due to high temperatures.

My first attempt at this was my giant coldframe idea which was 4 8ft railway sleepers covered by a layer of mesh with 4 8x2 ft twin wall polycarb sheets over the top. 2or 3 of these are taken off during the day and replaced at night.
Cooler days, all 4 stay on. Having flexability in the design means I can regulate the temperatures pretty well and , as in my earlier post, have hibernated tortoises in situ in there.

Frames of UVB allowing poly sheet would be great over a setup like that. Probably not as insulating as the polycarb but great for extending spring and autumn.

I have to say I was a bit miffed. Its pretty much similar to my design apart from the lumisol, I used polycarbonate but the rest was the same. I actually asked at the beginning as to what they were using so I could source it in my area, I got no reply and so waited to find out what was the miracle substance , even the decking boards were mentioned that I used on mine. I dont know why it was kept such a secret.

http://www.tortoisetrustforum.org/ph...hp?f=18&t=8280 I also documented my design on here shelled warriors

http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/for...ad.php?t=51374

But the lumisol is what makes the difference so good on them for sharing this eventually.

Daryn I agree with you that it's been a bit peculiar to have that notice up for so long on the TT site, as though some miraculous new invention was about to be revealed that was going to turn the world of tortoise keeping on its head. And then when it did come out, well it's useful I think and good to have. But not exactly a revolution.

This lumisol stuff does look the business though. The coldframes I have are made from plexiglass which has up to 70% uv transmission at best. And it's downhill all the way with plexiglass because scratches always happen and they reduce the uv transmission over time. Also the plexiglass is a fantastic insulator but that can mean too much heat build-up.

In my own set up if it gets too hot I just open the large lid, its the full size of the enclosure although my tortes can walk out of the enclosure into the garden.

I always hibernate my two tortes in this coldframe every year. I can show a link if needed but basically I have a small double insulated den within the coldframe, the tube heater/themostat is set for 5c at all times in the den, it works great but you have to watch the long term weather forecast, I keep them active and feeding as long as I can and try to put them down in December, if the temps get too low the thermostat kicks in and keeps the den at 5c it works really well.

I never need to bring my tortes in the house

So is it just the UV bulbs they are saying cause the problems?

No its the direct heat on top of them and dehydration effect, they went into it further than that but basically basking lamps concentrate all the heat on top of the carapace where as in natural sunlight they heat up more evenly and deeply in the core.

Thats why Ive always preferred the small warming coldframe areas I have in the garden, they come and go in them things and get toasty warm more evenly the downside being that they got no UV but now changing the poly carb top for this clear lumisol they get the best of both worlds. I did mention on the TT a while ago about using small warming area coldframes in direct sun with the back up of a tube heater on a thermostat not be a better way to warm them up than basking lamps. I still think this is the way to go.

See this is where the controversy in the way I keep torts cames in. I have mine in the evil vivarium's, and I don't use UV lights. I supplement through the winter and don't hibernate. They have an outdoor enclosure that they spend the day in during summer. I have very good growth on them both and have never had any problems with any kind of ill health, RNS etc. They are Iberas BTW. I use a basking light and a heat emitter on a stat during the winter.

Do you mind me asking how old your tortoises are? I am a newbie and have read all the info etc but it is always good to get different ideas and perspectives and find out how different methods work - I am a great believer that if it works for you and your tortoises are healthy and happy then that is what matters:)

I'm not sure how old Herbie is as he was quite big when we got him we think he may be about 14/15. Cameo is 4 now. I'll post some pictures of them in the picture section.

I also have a Herbie!! Look forward to seeing the pictures:) I was going to post some of Daisy as well as she is very big for her age and a bit pyramided so looking for advice.

Im not talking to you ever again ;);)

I say if it works it works you are only trying to look after them in the best way you know how as we all are, no one can accuse you of neglect thats for sure as Im sure they get the utmost care and love from you and they have had no health problems so your doing something right thats for sure

Im certainly not going to criticise the way you look after them, infact Im intrigued as it goes against what lots of other keepers say is the correct way.