No poo during wind-down
 

Hi
I have two Hermanns (11 years old) who have now been on starvation wind-down for 33 days. During that time they've had a tepid bath every 3 days or so, and the odd hour here and there under the UV lamp. In all that time not a single poo (or pee) from either of them. They ate like mad right up to the first day of starvation so I can't understand why they've had no "movements". It's also quite mild where we are - they've been at around 10-15 DegC the whole time. I'm not sure how long to keep starving them though or should I just hibernate them in the garage now anyway. Any thoughts? Ta.

Tortoises need at least 30-32c to help their systems digest food.
Hence the first week you have normal temps, but no food.
Second week you have normal temps but reduce the day by an hour each end. No food.
Third week normal temps but the length of the day with these temps is much much shorter. No food.
By the forth week they should be down to no heat or light.
Also the room they are in should be cold. Other wise they will be moving around and losing weight more than they should.
Remember light will wake your tortoises, so make it as dark as you can.

I also think they need daily warm baths at least for the first week to encourage things to move, its often in the bath tort will go to the toilet but it needs to be warm

I don't agree with my friends here. The temp at which digestion happens is 13c although it is slow at that level. I don't agree with warm baths either. There are none in the wild and the heat causes an abnormal bowel reaction.

My suggestion is starve them for a few days at human room temperature and bath in tepid water. And see what happens. My guess is that the food matter is in the bowel and not the gut.

well it always worked with me and as mine usually went when having a bath then it made sense that they'd still do so during wind down which was what I wanted them to do.

Fair enough PG.

Mine seem to still do it when the water isn't warm so I'm not convinced the heat part of this is needed.

well if I was cold blooded being put in cold water wouldn't do anything nice where as warm which I'd need to be active would be far more productive, surely warm water has the same effect as sitting in the warmth. Mine used to love warm water and would stretch out and relax, they'd sink right down with only their heads above the water, if the water was to cold they'd want to get out to me that was telling me something. Once warm and relaxed them toileting would follow both wee and poo I've read that they won't go if they aren't confident in being able to replace the fluids and having watched them I believe that. My water was about the same as a babies bath and even my young sully loved it, they'd come out feeling warm to the touch and would be active and ready for their food, they never tried to get out but would almost fall asleep and always had to be taken out as they'd have sat in there for ages as long as the water was kept warm.

I guess it partly depends what we mean by warm! A human baby's bath is meant to be normal blood temperature which might not seem like a warm bath to an adult human; it would maybe seem like a tepid one.

In Wolfgang Wegehaupt's book he argues that 'warm water baths' cause a violent evacuation of the bowel which leads to food matter being expelled before it is properly digested and that the point of a tortoise's digestive system is that it takes quite a while for coarse matter to be broken down into nutrients.

Referring back to nature, nothing like a warm bath would happen obviously. What happens is that reducing temperatures later in the year mean the animal doesn't feed and what is in its system gradually works its way through. The tortoise is active enough to be up and about for part of the day and its digestive system is still working but slowly. It's just my opinion of course, but I think this is the process that we should be trying to mimic rather than using overly warm baths to cause sudden bowel evacuations.

But I've said more than enough already on this one!

its an interesting debate isn't it. I haven't gone over 32'c but that would be pretty cool to a human....pretty hot against rain drops / water in summer? . I don't bath before hibernation because I think same Jonathan and would prefer a more natural way to eliminate waste...but also have a poorly tort in at the moment....hotter baths needed? but for what purpose other than hydration...I sort of figure too that even hose pipe play in summer is fun for humans if hot enough. CB

Thanks everybody for your most interesting answers - it seems to have sparked quite a conversation. I have today giving up waiting for the torts to poo and have hibernated them after a record length wind-down of 38 days. I figured this was getting too long even though they did drink during bath-time, so their big snooze can now begin.